Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

#142 - Sqairz Golf Shoes: Bob Winskowicz (founder)

• Paul Liberatore

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Sqairz Golf Shoes, founded in 2019 by Bob Winskowicz, are a groundbreaking innovation in golf footwear designed to enhance performance through balance, stability, and swing speed. The idea for Sqairz originated on a New England driving range, where Winskowicz noticed improved stability while wearing square-toed dress shoes. This realization led to years of research into biomechanics, ground force reaction, and foot movement, culminating in the creation of Sqairz golf shoes.

The defining feature of Sqairz shoes is their patented square toe design, which provides golfers with more room for their toes to sit naturally and improves balance by increasing ground contact area. This wider base under the ball of the foot enhances stability during swings, optimizing energy transfer and boosting accuracy and distance. Independent tests have shown that wearing Sqairz shoes can increase swing speed by up to 2.9 mph, translating into additional yardage.

Sqairz shoes prioritize comfort, performance, and style. They feature waterproof materials for durability, breathable designs for comfort, and innovative "Sta-Put" laces that remain tied throughout a round of golf. 

Endorsed by PGA Tour legends like Sir Nick Faldo and John Daly, Sqairz has gained credibility as a performance-driven brand. The company is expanding its technology into other sports while maintaining its commitment to revolutionizing golf footwear with science-backed innovation.


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Paul:

What's up, guys? Welcome to the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. This week I have my very good friend, mr Bob. How the hell do I say your last name, wiskinowitz, just kidding.

Bob:

You know that's a contradiction. My really good friend and you can't even say my last name, jeez, you know.

Paul:

I spelled it out once. But Winskowitz, winskowitz, see. Look, I got Libertari it's Italian, it's Italian, you know that's Italian. Look, I got libertory italian, it's italian, you know, that's italian. That's the magic, actually. We've been friends for a long time. I'm always. I'm just giving a hard time. I know I say his last name, but if you don't know who bob is, he is the founder and creator of squares golf shoes, who pretty much make one of the coolest golf shoes like ever made. And they're also coming out or they have come out with other sports too, which is really cool, and I think it's really going to change. Not, it has not only changed golf, I think it's going to change these two other sports as well, and who knows where else he's going to go. So anyways, I'll let him do all talking.

Bob:

Welcome to the show it's always good to be on your show, paul. Thank you so much, really Really appreciate it.

Paul:

So Bob and I were supposed to do this on Monday, and then we ended up just bullshitting for an hour and a half and I was like, oh, we never went live and I'm like, oh, let's reschedule for Friday. And then we ended up talking now for the last 40 minutes and I'm like, oh, we better start recording.

Bob:

That's what happens when Bob and ideas and you know, it's, yeah, it's all, it's a lot of fun. We just, you know we banter ideas and thoughts. Talk about the golf industry, talk about, uh, you know, the business of golf, and it's, it's always fun. What?

Paul:

year did you start squares?

Bob:

so, technically, 2019 was when we actually had a shoe. We went to market in 2020. So you know, here we are. You know, technically say, six years later, but only five years on the market, yeah, but you guys blew up. We did. We were really fortunate, you know, really blessed in a sense, that we launched this in 2020, in January, and what happened was in April of that year, out of the blue, I got my phone rings and this gentleman on the other end says my name is Jeremy Eisenberg and I represent Sir Nick Faldo. And I'm like, all right, who is this? I thought it was a friend of mine, breaking my chops, you know. And so so he says no, no, no, sir Nick, he's really studying how to use the ground better and studying ground force. And he went online and he typed in on on Google. He typed in balance, stability and golf, golf shoes and Squares came up. You know, thank God for search engine optimization, because you know he found our shoes. And he said would you mind sending him a couple pairs of shoes?

Paul:

So we yeah, you can buy them.

Bob:

Well, you know we were direct to consumer. You know we've been direct to consumer, so there's no place he can really go. But you know, so we sent them a couple of pairs and they wanted to set up a Zoom about a month later. And I get on there and of course I was humbled that I'm on with Sir Nick Faldo. You know I really didn't get. You know, I worked for Arnold Palmer for years, spent a lot of time with Arnold and things like that. But you know, sir Nick was more relatable to me, watching him grow and the fierceness that he exhibited on the course and all of that. You know six majors.

Bob:

And so I get on the call with him and he asked me to tell him about the shoes. And he leans back and he said I would have never believed this in a million years that I put these shoes on. And he picked up about three miles an hour in a swing speed and he said look, I just feel more balanced, more stable. And he says as you get older, you know you got to have this confidence that you can go after the golf ball, you can go after it a little more. And he said you know, I think what holds a lot of players back is the shoes today. And so he just started to reel about the shoes and then he said, bob, how do I get involved? And so I mean it's out there.

Bob:

He's done a couple of videos when he's been interviewed about this and he's told this whole story. So you know a lot of people say wait a minute. He asked you if he could be involved and I said yes, he did. It's out there in his own words. So that's what really rocketed this. This is what threw gas on the fire was that instant validation and credibility that comes with somebody that's won over 40 times on tour and six majors and the whole thing like he's legend.

Paul:

Yeah, you know what I mean it's like. But they he came, but it also he found you. It wasn't like he, you know I'm gonna find, sir, someone you know, sir nick the, you know, be our spokesperson. It's like no, he chose that because he's like holy crap, what the heck is this?

Bob:

well it's. It's interesting is that you know golf. You mentioned earlier about that. We've ventured into sports like baseball and pickleball, and I'll use baseball as an example. Golf has really pioneered ground force and how to use it and how to study it and how to assess it and how it really relates to powering the golf swing. And so when you start looking at ground force, it's really that interaction of your feet with the ground and once you get to that space there, the golf shoe it really comes to the forefront of the conversation because it, if you think about it, there's there's two, two connections to the in the game of golf your hands to the club and your feet to the ground. Now, I would argue that your feet to the ground are the most important. And then somebody says well, you can't hit the ball unless you're holding the club.

Paul:

Sure enough.

Bob:

But where the golf swing emanates from is from your interaction with the ground, and so that makes the golf shoe probably the most important piece of equipment. Well, the reason why ground force has been, has has was studied, was over the years, as the USGA starts regulating shafts and heads and trampoline effect and all of that that regulated the heck out of the golf ball. And, as you know, the talk out there is that they want to roll back the distance of the golf ball. Well, it's because we have optimized shaft technology and head technology, we've optimized club fitting, we've optimized the golf ball. So the usga stepped in and really put regulations on the club and the ball.

Paul:

So where else do you look for more? There's only so much that you can dig and do. Now right, like that's it. That's the rule, that's the line. You can't go past that or it's not going to be.

Bob:

I'm going to give you a statistic that you will not believe. I won't embarrass you, but I will tell you if I was to ask you In 2018, in 2018, the average driving distance for an amateur, measured by Arcos over 20 million swings with a driver was 226.3 yards. Okay, what would you guess it to be in 2023?

Paul:

I'm not going to put you out there. It's 225 yards, so the same. It went down 1.3 yards. But it's all these new golf clubs and they're all cool. It has ai face and whatever the new 10k, something this information is out on google.

Bob:

It was was published by Arcos Over 20 million swings with a driver in 2018 and 2023. So anybody listening to this can fact check me on this. Driving distance has gone down by more than a yard and I have an opinion as to why I want to know why.

Bob:

Yes, please is that it sounds illogical that there's any way it could go down. And the reason I say that is because if you watch every commercial for Callaway, for Titleist, for, you know, for TaylorMade and all paying and all the drivers out there, you're picking up 10, 20 yards every year. You should be hitting the ball in that time frame another hundred yards. Well, the other thing that flies in the face is that you know, be hitting the ball in that timeframe another hundred yards. Well, the other thing that flies in the face is that you know club fitting. I mean you take places like Club Champion and all of these places now that I don't know too many people that don't go in and buy a club today that don't get fitted. So that should optimize your swing. That should give you more distance.

Bob:

Think about shaft technology. Most people think the engine of a golf club is the head. It is not. It is the shaft. The shaft is the engine of a golf club. So all of the advancement in shaft technology, why is it that people have lost 1.3 yards of distance? Well, if you buy in a ground force and you start looking at shoes, the industry, the golf industry went to about 63% of these spikeless, lightweight, sneaker-like shoes that you can twist, okay, and I always tell people if you can twist the golf shoe, hold it by the heel and the toe and twist it. Throw it away. You can't play golf in it. Now, 82% of all tour players wear a golf shoe that's got a removable cleat. Spikes. Of that, 82% 30% still wear a metal cleat. We can't as amateurs, and we all love to hear that click, click, click when they're walking through the yeah yeah.

Bob:

But, but. But the 82 percent of tour players wear a removable cleat. Now, driving distance went up about eight yards in that same period for tour pros. Ok, but when you start studying the ground, ground force, your shoe can either help you or hurt you. Now most golfers out there who is listening to this would say, geez, that just kind of makes sense. But with all the pressure mats that we have today in swing analysis we can show you what your weight distribution looks like.

Bob:

So in the golf swing, the two most important things I believe is balance stability. Well, balance stability I would put in the same bucket and then weight distribution. So weight weight distribution is that you too much in your toes, too much in your heels. When you take the club back, you should load on the inside of your trail heel and and. So where is your weight at what point in the swing? All right, that's number one.

Bob:

Number two is you create pressure with the ground. So when you look at somebody like Rory McIlroy and you watch him hit a drive, I mean here's a guy that's 160 pounds, soaking wet, and he can hit the ball 345 yards. Now, how is that possible? Well, he uses the ground and if you watch him swing as he's coming down. It looks like he's sitting down, but what's happening is is he's forcing, forcing pressure into the ground more than twice his body weight. He's forcing it down into the ground, it's coming back up through him and that's the source of his power. And to make it kind of simple for people is that it's like jumping on a trampoline. When you want to go higher, what do you do? You push down harder, you extend your legs, you push down harder and that gives you more pressure to go back up. So number one, it's how much pressure can you create with the ground? And then the single greatest difference between an amateur player and a tour pro is what we call postural control, which is stability, how well you control your body through that motion. So now you create the pressure, but how much of that pressure do you use at the point of impact? And I can tell you it's not the same amount that you generate here, because we, as golfers, you know you see the golfers moving back and forth and left and right. Yet the tour players, you know you can draw a line down and watch how that head stays right there behind the ball. And so posture and postural control and balance and stability and weight distribution is paramount in the golf swing.

Bob:

Rick Smith, who's one of the top instructors out there? We've got Rick Smith, david Ledbetter, jim McLean, all these instructors, would you know? People go in for lessons and the guy says you know, hey, should my hands be here here? Here Rick Smith says look, forget about your hands, I'm going to work from your, about your hands. I'm going to work from your belt. Buckle down, I'm going to work on your footwork, your interaction with the ground, and then we'll worry about all the way up here. That would be like building a house before you build a foundation. So your golf shoe is paramount Now.

Bob:

Golf shoes of the past uh, with the, with the leather structured spike shoes, let's just park those to the right and then take these lightweight, sneaker like spikeless shoes that you're like slipping and sliding right it is you are and and the other thing is is that when you wear something these, these lightweight sneaker shoes and you have a side hill downhill lie, which we know, of course, isn't perfectly flat, your foot is going to press out of this shoe, it's going to move in the shoe, and then your body has this internal GPS and if you feel that that movement of your foot on a side hill, downhill lie, it's kind of like when you're looking over a cliff. When you're looking over a cliff, your brain says, oh, and your toes are going to grab the ground. And that's the same thing in golf. If you're in a side hill downhill lie and your body feels this imbalance, it's going to grab the ground and that's the worst thing you can do is grab the ground. So when you look at those lightweight sneaker-like shoes over here and you look at that leather-structured shoe with great traction over here, you know the lightweight sneaker was like, hey, people feel it's more comfortable, more breathable, all of that. Where the old shoe of yesterday was heavy, but it had the structure, it had the traction. Where the old shoe of yesterday was heavy, but it had the structure, it had the traction.

Bob:

What we did at Squares is. We believe we've built the perfect confluence of that lightweight sneaker like shoe and that structured spike shoe of the past. So we believe we have created this whole new category of shoe which is really what I call the perfect hybrid. So let me, let me kind of take you through that Number one. This shoe weighs about 424 grams. If you look at the Adidas Tour 360, you look at the FootJoy Premier, the FootJoy Traditions, the G44 gallivan, this is lighter than that. So those performance shoes, where squares participates in this performance shoe business, that we are the lightest of any performance-based shoe in the market. So we took that light weight from that other category, that sneaker like, put it into this shoe without compromising structure. You can't twist this shoe. It's got the structure. The other thing we did is we built a hybrid traction pattern so, as you can see, it's kind of get that like spikeless look with a couple of spikes sprinkled in. Now, where these spikes are located are directly under the pressure points that, that, that, they that you exert the greatest amount of pressure on the ground. So these, these are strategically positioned.

Bob:

But what makes this shoe far different than any other shoe? And we have done study of the study, of study about ground force and about distance, that this shoe. This shoe will outperform any other shoe on the market relative to distance. And this is why is that with all shoes today they angle your toes to the center of the shoe and your foot really operates as a three-legged stool your thumb, your little toe and your heel. And if you take and you start angling your toes to the center of the shoe, you start losing balance and stability. You also start losing that feel for the ground in your ability to create ground force, because when you start moving that in like this, just think about how much ground force you can produce with this kind of motion versus this kind of motion. So the other thing is your big toe is like the steering wheel of a car. This gives you direction. This accounts for most of the production in the golf swing is your big toe. But when you start reducing that by moving it inwards, you start reducing the foot function and you also start reducing balance and stability and ground force production. And again, this is all measurable with pressure mats.

Bob:

So what Squares did is the rest of what Squares did is we opened up the toe box. Now, this is not a wide shoe, all right, this is a normal D width shoe. But what we did is we opened up the toe box from where the toes meet the foot up in this area. Only Now you would think that that's really not novel. But when you think back to all the shoes that have been produced up to date, everything angled your toes to the center of the shoe. But now, because of all the research that's out there and all of the problems people have with plantar fasciitis and all of these foot problems, is that people like Hoka, people like Ultra people, like on running everybody has jumped into opening up the toe box comes with opening up the toe box.

Bob:

So we opened up the toe box, but, as I mentioned, this is not a wide shoe, but what we did was just the outsole only is we widened the base under the ball of your foot by about four millimeters. This will give you even more balance and stability. But now you've got more traction and more coverage of the ground and more energy exchange with the ground. The other thing we did is this this piece on the back of the shoe, this external piece. It runs externally and then internally down along the plant, the fascia, and this gives tremendous art support, but it also gives. It gives that anti, anti-torsion, because you don't want the shoe twisting. The other little technique we did is we put these little nubs on the laces. We did that because you want the foot to be one with the shoe. So what you do is you bring this down, but you don't want it loosening up, and so once you pull these laces tight, they stay exactly where you put them.

Paul:

They put laces right, that's right.

Bob:

Yep. So the other thing is that with the toe box, there's more comfort, there's more balance, there's more stability, more ground production. So what we did in golf golf really pioneered ground force, force plates, all of the science and technology, swing analysis. Now other sports, like baseball, are finally finally catching up. Now we launched our baseball shoe back in October and we have just been named the official baseball shoe of Perfect Game. We've been named the official baseball shoe of perfect game. We've been named the official baseball shoe of major league baseball players association. Minor league and major league baseball players association, an official partner of of all the players in the in in major league baseball, we will have over 250 players wearing the shoe in baseball, and the whole reason is is that they did the same type of research in baseball and on average, in major league baseball players are picking up five miles an hour and exit velocity.

Paul:

Now exit velocity. Yeah, what does that mean? Cause if you're not in a baseball like this is massive right.

Bob:

This is game changing. It is and and. And. If you think about it now, why does that happen? How does it happen and I know it sounds like a big number when you say five miles an hour in exit velocity, now in pitching it's 2.7 miles an hour. On a fastball We've picked up 2.7 miles an hour.

Bob:

And this was independent studies and in fact it's a medical, clinical independent study and we had a group of. There was a group of orthopedic surgeons and podiatrists got together and were very intrigued about the impact of shoe design and structure as it relates to foot function and performance, and they did a study and it was presented three weeks ago at the American College in Foot and Ankle Surgeons Convention and it won an award. That our shoe won an award. It was presented at this recognizable medical conference that why they were so intrigued was that this shoe promotes proper foot function and that proper foot function allows for better or elevated performance. And then we can measure that elevated performance.

Bob:

So in baseball it's a game changer because, if you think about it, what happens with a baseball player? They have a tendency of doing what they call varus of valgus profile. All right, now varus is picking up your big toe. All right, valgus is picking up your little toe and if you watch a lot of these players as they get ready to swing, they start picking their foot up and as they start picking that foot up and the shoe is encouraging because that shoe doesn't have structure or the design of that shoe, so I can measure how much that toe is up and how much they're losing in exit velocity. So what I'm what I'm here to say is that it's not that that this shoe is is is giving them something they don't have. What the shoe does is it reduces all of this anti-torsion, it keeps their foot in a neutral position and it lets them optimize their potential. These guys that are picking up five miles an hour in exit velocity, they always had it, they just could never use it.

Paul:

Because of the way their foot is right yeah, exactly. And the way they already have a problem with. Not a problem, but it's just how they're built, right. And then, on top of it, the shoe makes it even worse, right.

Bob:

It exacerbates it, it promotes that, you know that inefficiency, it encourages it and it makes it worse. And it was interesting I was talking with Manny Rodriguez's agent. Manny's a pitcher for the Rays and so he was throwing consistently 94 miles an hour, you know, in his Nikes. And so I was talking to his agent and I said to her I said I'll tell you what I'll make you a bet. To her I said I'll tell you what I'll make you a bet. I'm going to send him these shoes and he'll pick up at least two miles an hour. And so we made a bet. In fact, she's a big pizza fan, I'm a pizza fan and so we're talking, we said what are we going to bet? And we said let's bet a pizza. So we send the shoes to Manny. About two weeks later I get an email and the opening line of the email was I owe you a pizza.

Bob:

He hit 97-98 in his fastball just by changing his shoes. Now, like I said before, he's always had that potential, but the fact that those shoes were jamming his toes like this balanced stability. And I think Manny had a various profile, which means you know if you look at your shoes and where you wear your shoes out. You know you have a certain profile and if you have a various profile and you've got a shoe that encourages more of that, you're losing a lot. So you know it's our ability when you're hitting, when you're pitching, when you're running is that balance and stability is paramount.

Bob:

So when I launched Squares, it was really all about one thing. It was a premise that I said if I can improve your balance and your stability, you will hit the ball farther and straighter, because balance and stability has a direct relationship with dispersion, same with distance that if I can give you more balance, you will hit it farther, and we can measure that today. So you know it's all about ground force, it's all about the production of it and then how much you use. And this year we really focused in on, you know, a very classy, clean design. And then we really worked on taking weight out of the shoe. Now, when you take weight out of the shoe, usually taking weight out means taking structure out. So that's the delicate balance, that's the engineering that went into this shoe, with materials and internal structure that we were able to take out of the shoe. Last year we were 491 grams. This year we're 424.

Bob:

So taking out of 50 grams, which 50-something grams, which is almost, you know, two and a half ounces. We've taken out almost two and a half ounces. So it's something that you know everybody is talking about today is the golf shoe and how to use the ground better. And in fact, I was watching the golf channel the other night and there was something on there about rory talking about working with the designers at nike to customize the shoe based upon his foot profile. You know, scotty Scheffler had the same kind of situation where they filmed him working with them to customize the shoe, and even I think JT was on the other night talking about his foot choice. So you know it's something that we have as a footwear company. We pioneered, really, in golf footwear.

Paul:

We pioneered this whole thing about allowing the toes to sit naturally, producing more energy, more balance, more stability, and now everybody's starting to catch up to us well, it's just crazy too, because and until people are really understanding what's the science behind it and the numbers and you start to really it's like holy crap, you know, not just for baseball, I mean initially for golf, but now it's like not just golf, now it's baseball, now it's pickleball.

Bob:

It's like the same theory any sport you're on your feet pretty much could this, could help somebody absolutely, because balance and stability in any land-based sport is paramount, because you can't optimize your performance without optimizing your use of the ground. It's something we all know that you've just got to be able to use the ground better and more efficiently, and if you can do that, you'll play at a much higher level. So someone's asking a question Maybe you can do that. Um, you'll play at a much higher level.

Paul:

So someone's asking a question. Maybe you can look at this question here. This guy's asking can squares bring a 2e wide to a size 7 for a golf shoe, because it only goes with a size 9 I don't think we are the the answer.

Bob:

The answer is yes, we, we, we have gotten enough, gotten a lot of requests for E's in the lower size.

Paul:

What does that mean for dummies like me? I don't know what that means.

Bob:

All right, so E is width. So there's a normal D width and then you have an E width and then they have what they call two, three, four E's. It's just the width. This person probably has a wide ball under their foot, you know wide base of their foot. So, uh, with even with our, a lot of people try to buy width with length of the shoe, which is weird, right, because? Then their foot's moving in the shoe. But you know that was really their only option for years is trying to buy that yeah, I just and, and, so now the industry has really really focused on this.

Bob:

So the answer is yes, we will be addressing this.

Paul:

I guess what made you guys move into baseball. Like when did you realize? Like whoa baseball? Because I mean initially you started in golf, but did baseball become because pickleball came before baseball, right, and then no, actually.

Bob:

Wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are correct. Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, yes, you are correct, you are correct. But it's kind of an interesting story is that we started designing, developing a pickleball shoe because we saw you know, we really saw the crossover play pickleball and we designed this shoe and we made probably, I think, a size nine to a 13. And we have a gentleman named Phil Stoddard who's a ground force expert, does a lot of work with the Cincinnati Reds and a lot of other major league baseball players and teams, and so Phil says hey, can you send me down some of those pickleball like shoes that you develop? We sent them down at Phil. Phil took them because he understood our golf shoe and how it really helps put people in a neutral position, balanced ability. His mindset, unbeknownst to me, was to take it to the Reds training camp, and so we took it over to the training camp and started training these kids in the shoes. And he calls me one night. He goes Bob, you're not going to believe what I'm seeing here. I mean I got kids that are picking up five, six miles an hour in exit velocity. I mean I got pitchers that are picking up three miles an hour in their fastball just by changing the shoes out. He says I think you got something here in baseball.

Bob:

And so you know I didn't take the bait. I went for about another year and he kept pushing me. And then he says look, you do me a favor, can you make like three or four you know molded shoes? Because we were making like a turf, you know, and that's what's the pickleball shit? You know the pickleball. And so I did, and same thing happened. He calls me back, bob. I got guys asking for him, I got to get you know, and that's how it really started and I finally just said hey, if I can see this kind of data coming out of the same data coming out of baseball as I did golf, then why not? So then I brought on somebody to do all the testing. Louisville Slugger's hitting and science center did all of this testing about ground force production, exit, velocity, throwing, velocities, running, and, and so we got into baseball. And then about three months later we we launched in December of last year, you know, we launched our pickleball shoe.

Paul:

This is amazing how it's developing so fast, because this technology is so revolutionary that I don't know. I think baseball is going to be bigger than golf. That's what I think personally.

Bob:

Well, you certainly. I think you're right too, because there's certainly, you know, the fun part about baseball is that you know, we sell to a lot of teams, you know, and instead of selling one golfer out there, I sell to, you know, 20 something kids and then, as you know, as a parent and somebody has somebody in baseball is that they need, they need a molded and they need a turf, or they need a molded turf and metal.

Paul:

So there's three, you know, and then and it's a kid their feet are growing right and they're going to destroy them in the next four months. And you know one pair of golf shoes that you use for three years, right?

Bob:

So you know golf is, you know golf is great. I love golf. It's a testing ground. It's a testing ground.

Paul:

Yeah, I mean for a lot of products. I figure, like I mean, it works. The technology works, regardless of what sport, and I bet you're going to figure out some other way of using it for some other sport too, annoying you. You know what I mean. Oh, we could use it for basketball, who knows? I have no idea. But like this, something else that, like I don't know, I think the technology is, it's.

Bob:

But I think for golf, you know, I I have got a tremendous passion, as you know, for golf and if I could, if I could, talk to every golfer in the United States or around the world, I would say everybody thinks the golf shoe is just a fashion statement. Everybody thinks the golf shoe is just a fashion statement. Everybody wants to look good, sure enough. But the golf shoe really facilitates all the key fundamentals of the swing and without balance and stability and ground connection, you got nothing. Everything else is compensation. From that point forward, you're compensating. You may become really good at compensating, but that's why the golf, the tour pros, don't compensate. They've got this, this whole regimen down. They can repeat it, repeat it, repeat it. So you know they focus on that. They are always on pressure mats are all on swing speeds. They're all looking at, at certain points of the swing, how balanced they are, if they're on their toes, the heels or whatever. I would tell every golfer that is listening to this that give it a shot, go out and get a pair of squares.

Bob:

Get on a pressure mat or swing speed monitor and you will show yourself. You will feel instantly. This is the beauty of these shoes.

Paul:

You're going to see it. You're going to be like what the F? Yeah? Same change on your body, right?

Bob:

That's what you're doing with your feet.

Bob:

Right and just put them on, you'll instantly feel the stability number one. Number two is you will have this feeling that you can go after it because you feel that stable, that connected to the ground. The other thing is you will see the distance. You will see them on the golf course. Wear them for 30 days and if you don't like them, if they don't do everything we say, you can send them back. There's not too many companies out there that will do that. Once you wear them, you own them. Well, once you wear them, they'll charge you a 30% restocking fee or something like that.

Bob:

I am so confident in the data. We have over 40 something papers published on the design of our shoe, most of which are medical clinical papers and the function. We've got a medical advisory board of podiatrists four podiatrists, no three podiatrists, three orthopedic surgeon and a gentleman who owns the largest physical therapy practice in the United States. They've got over 3,000 locations and you don't get these type of people unless they test it, they validate it, because they're not going to put their name. They're not going to put their name on that shit.

Bob:

There's no way, nope, and and that's why you know it's it's sometimes hard to market what we have in this shoe and and you know we all have a limited attention span, but you know, coming on a podcast like this where I can tell the whole story and hopefully it's entertaining enough, so somebody listens to Will's story is that, hey look, there's nothing more important than your golf shoe. And the last thing I'd say is my golf spy did a study, I think it was like two years ago. They took the five best performing drivers and they took and they added a driver that was five years old into the mix and they tested all these drivers and they boiled it down to five drivers and the difference between number one and three was less than a yard. All right in in times of distance, all right so same shaft, same head, same everything.

Bob:

I think it was less than one yard in the top three. It's less than three yards in the top five. The second best, second best performing driver was the one that was five years old. It's hilarious. And then you match up with the fact that in 2018, it was 226.3 yards average driving distance and in 2023, it was 225, a loss of 1.3 yards. The only thing that's changed is the golf shoe. Over this time, the market went to 63 percent to this. It's starting to really start to come back now, because people are finally realizing that a this is hurting your game, but b is companies like us. They can give you that lightweight, that comfortability, without compromising performance.

Paul:

Yeah, I've always been a fan, like you know that, like I've seen the technology, but then even, like I've talked to, some other people have used it that are in the professional field and they're like, dude, it does work. I'm like, yeah, no shit, you're a lot.

Bob:

I think you said it exactly that way too, I really probably did say that.

Paul:

I'm like thanks, Watson, when can people find Squares?

Bob:

You can visit our website, squares S-Q-A-I-R-Z squarescom. We're also available. The golf is available worldwide golf. They're on PGA tour scorescom. Our baseball is on dickscom, so, but our website, if you go to our website, which is squarescom, you can see everything there and, like I said, give it a try and after 30 days it doesn't do everything we say it does.

Paul:

You can send it back well, outside of all the tech and all the cool shit, like you guys are keeping refining the shoe too, like the way it looks right, like from where you were in 2019, 2020 to now. Like the shoes works the same but they're getting more, it looks different and it's getting refined and it's like that's cool, you know honestly, paul, because we listen.

Paul:

We listen to people we were knocking like, oh yeah, it looks like. Now it's like, dude, these shoes look badass yeah people were saying, hey, I don't like the looks.

Bob:

You know, it's too heavy, you know, and so you know. What we do is we start. I work here and I've got more shoes sitting around me than you can imagine and I look at them all day long and I sit here and I think how can I make this better? What little nuance can I do? Do I add more cushioning on the collar here? Do I? You?

Paul:

know that's a baseball shoe right. Yeah that's a baseball shoe.

Bob:

That's going baseball shoe, right, yeah, that's a baseball shoe that's going to blow up, bro, I can tell you right now. Yeah, you know. The other thing too is this year we did was a premium microfiber upper, and microfiber is great because microfiber is 100% waterproof, so it doesn't let water in, but it lets perspiration and moisture out, and so you know that breathability is critical. The other thing we do is we sew our tongue all the way down because water wants to bounce into the shoe through the tongue. So this shoe is literally waterproof all the way up to the top in the baseball shoe baseball shoe, yeah, in the baseball shoe and our, our golf shoe, yep, yep well, I knew the golf shoe because it has this scupper.

Paul:

Did you guys call it yeah?

Bob:

this upper material is a microfiber upper, and again we sew the gusset on either side.

Paul:

That's it. That's what it was. Yeah, so it's waterproof like there's no way water's gonna get in that bad boy no, not at all.

Bob:

In fact, I did a video last year. I put my foot, I had both feet in the lake, soaking in the the lake and all the way up to here I took my shoe off and showed my feet were still dry, my socks were still dry. They're 100% waterproof. Two-year guarantee on the waterproof.

Paul:

That's so cool. I'm proud of you. I think it's cool as shit. Dude, you're crushing it and I love it how you're moving outside of golf and like the baseball and the pickleball, it's like I don't know a lot of foresight there just to see.

Bob:

Yeah, as we were talking before, I don't think I've met I think I've met one pitcher that pitches in the MLB that doesn't play golf. These guys love golf, so it's you know.

Paul:

I get, I get them. They're always hanging me. Hey, can I?

Bob:

get a pair of golf shoes. You know, hey, can I get a pair of golf shoes? Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I just did a shoe for Roger Clemens Actually, it was this shoe and we put the Rocket man logo on the back of the shoe here for him. Yeah, he's a big golfer and, of course, great pitcher, an amazing pitcher, he's the.

Paul:

GOAT, one of the GOATs, yep. Well, thank you for being on the show today. You guys got to check out Squares. It's the real deal. Bob's awesome, bob's awesome. So, but, thank you, Be on the show and I'll see you guys in the next episode.

Bob:

Thanks, Paul Appreciate it. Thanks, Paul Appreciate it.

:

Thanks, paul, appreciate it.

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Paul Liberatore Esq.

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