Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
It’s like playing a round of golf with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs and listening to the stories behind their success.
Hi, I’m Paul Liberatore, and I love talking to entrepreneurs and the stories behind their brands. I find it intriguing when people are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and successes. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to some of the biggest names and brands in the game of golf.
So come join me on my quest to find the stories Behind the Brand.
Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
#64 - LYLE & SCOTT: Chris Somerton (Head of Golf)
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We made it to Episode 64 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my good friend Chris Somerton, the Head of Golf at LYLE & SCOTT.
Founded in 1874, Lyle & Scott has a history steeped in craftsmanship and innovation. Over the past 147 years the company has grown to be an established menswear brand, famous for creating edited, versatile collections with a quality that can be trusted.
In the mid-1950’s, it became a disruptive force in golf apparel, changing the game forever with its innovative patterns and prints worn by champions such as Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman, Tony Jacklin and Lee Westwood. Lyle and Scott’s premium and accessible men’s golf-fashion pieces include its heritage knitwear along with more innovative, sustainable, and organic materials in sophisticated, modern aesthetics informed by decades of design and a passion to make golf more exciting, inclusive, and accessible to everyone.
Based in the UK, with proud Scottish roots, the Brand has successfully flown the flag as far afield as Japan and Australia, with the iconic Golden Eagle now very much front and center on the world stage.
And
Speaker 2What's up guys, making sure we're online right now. It's like , we are, what's up guys, Paul from golfers authority, welcome to the behind the golf brand podcast, episode 64, which I can't believe it's crazy. Um , we're winding up the end of the year. I'm on the show and I'm really excited to have my friend Chris Summerton from mile and Scott. Uh, these guys are cool as hell. They've been around forever and I love fashion. I love British fashion actually. So like, I'm really excited to have him on the show to learn more about what they're doing. Um, and what's coming out for next year and just like their history. Cause I love like old British fashion history, like tenfold, like all of these guys, like, I don't know . I think it's really like, that's the roots of this game. Right? So without further ado, Chris, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3Thank you for having me, Paul pleasure to be here and excited to , uh, that you will know about what's happening at land Scott, what we're up to what's coming next.
Speaker 2So, okay, here we go. We're play game. It's called what's your story. So really what I want to want to , what I want to find out is like, how'd you get into like golf or you offer, are you a fashion person? Like what's the story.
Speaker 3I came to go through the really technical side. So I went to university university to study , uh , engineering and specifically like the design of sports equipment. Really? Yeah. So an engineer. Yeah. So that's , that's , that's my qualification. And as I kind of moved through that, you got to specialize more in different sports. And we had in like the, the facility that I worked in, a giant robot that swung a golf club and a giant robot, that five golf balls, really,
Speaker 2Exactly F an expensive man. Those are
Speaker 3Half
Speaker 2A million dollars. I always like I've always wanted with one. I mean, I think it'd be cool if you're doing, if you're doing real testing, that's what you need. Not like some dude hitting in a cage.
Speaker 3Exactly. So I looked at those on a lot . Well, I just want to use those all the time. And I just, from there, I just fell in love with how, how much you can apply science to the game. Um , all the engineering principles that can go into designing a building or a car can be applied in golf. And I just, I found it fascinating and kind of fell in love with it there. So I went into equipment design or the hardware side. So I went and joined a hardware manufacturer based here in the UK. And kind of, that was my route into the golf industry.
Speaker 2Were you a player before, like where are you playing off like this for fun or whatever ,
Speaker 3You know, real passing interest that I would go to the driving range a couple of times a year. But as soon as I started kind of that journey into golf, I was playing all the time. And in my , uh, in my previous role at that hardware manufacturer, I was playing kind of three or four times a week. Not very well at all, but certainly more regular.
Speaker 2So where'd you grow up England? Yeah ,
Speaker 3So I grew up in the Southwest of England and a place called Gloucester and then moved to London when I started that job straight out of university. So I've been in and around London for pretty much the last 10 years now.
Speaker 2All right. So you grew up in Gloucester and then you just play for fun, whatever, like everybody else. And then did, so you went to school to be an engineer. Did you want to go into like sports engineering stuff or was it more like you were just going into like mechanical engineering or something?
Speaker 3Yeah, I always wanted it to have a sports focus. I basically had two routes in life. Then there could have been very different. Um , I only applied to do one thing at one university, which was this very specialized , um, degree course in , in sports, but equipment engineering. Um, if it hadn't been that I would have been a carpenter,
Speaker 2So brilliant .
Speaker 3And , uh , uh, yeah , one of them worked out and I would still like to do some carpentry perhaps later in life, but , uh, yeah, found this kind of specialized, nice of sports equipment, design and engineering, and particularly golf within that. And that's how I fell in love with it.
Speaker 2Um, so how'd you get into fashion then?
Speaker 3So I , um , blacked the job basically. Uh, so I used to do kind of product development in my old role. Um, but for golf clubs, so hardware, a , um, vacancy avatar. I used here for a product developer, which on paper sounded very similar to what I was doing at the other company. Uh , and then, you know, got through an interview, talks about golf a lot, had a good conversation with the guy that was interviewing me, arrived here and , um , realized I just knew absolutely nothing about what was happening here. The pro I look at the product development team who sit downstairs and they are like infinitely more knowledgeable about it than I ever was. I got imposter syndrome like to the max because I literally didn't know the words they were saying, what anything meant like Jersey. I didn't know what that was, but I've learned a lot since over the last kind of
Speaker 2British word man needed, like, excuse me, English words, like a shirt.
Speaker 3Yeah . It was kind of that basic. Um, but you know, we muddled through and so I did that for about a year , uh, and that was kind of my introduction into the world of fashion and specifically golf fashion.
Speaker 2Well , the lie on Scott that's who it was. So then before long Scott, where were you? Were you working like yeah ,
Speaker 3Uh , UK hardware manufacturer called Ben Ross. And we also had the distribution for Bridgestone golf balls.
Speaker 2Oh. So it was like a big, it's go . It's a big distributor who also makes stuff. There's lots of those. I've learned that things really weird about golf. There's a lot of distributors that do that. Like, what is Ben Ross? Is that like a corporation or is that a privately held company?
Speaker 3Family owned company for
Speaker 2All like that, man. It's so weird. I've learned that lately. And it blows my mind because like , um, like in the last year I've realized that like some of the biggest players are usually are closely held family companies. They have like seven or eight huge brands under them. That they're the main distributor for. And you're like, I would never have known that in a million years. Right. Like , it's crazy. Like they're all like not big corporations. I don't know. I just, there's like at least three, I can think of off the top of my mind,
Speaker 3But even Lauren's got where I'm by one person really.
Speaker 2Okay. And we'll get to that in a minute. So, so then when you were at the other company, you were doing like design work or were you, what were you doing?
Speaker 3And literally everything. The whole product story from sketches onto a page to making sure it was delivered into the warehouses
Speaker 2All the way through you're talented at drawing stuff . That's okay. Cause he's like , I could have been a carpenter. Well, yeah. It's like, you're just designing. Right. You're like figuring it out and making it look cool. Like that's the carpenter, just the wood and how
Speaker 3It's, you know, it's product ownership from start to finish, which is what I like. It's what we get to do it .
Speaker 2Okay. So then you are allowed Scott. You're like, oh yeah, man. I know golf real well. And they're like interview you. And you're like, oh crap. Did you think you didn't get the job when you first interviewed?
Speaker 3Um, yeah. I mean, I wasn't that hopeful. I came in and I was like, oh, this seems like it was the opposite end to what I'd been used to. So I
Speaker 2Interviewed with Lyle or Scott, just kidding. Tell me
Speaker 3Which one it was, but I know it was a nice guy called Tom actually. I mean , I do remember it. Well actually the second stage I met the director for that part of the business at that time. And then the second stage, I came back for an interview with the CEO and he put me at ease because he said, well, to get to this stage, your, you must be technically good enough to get the job. Um , but I turned up as a , um, you know, inexperienced, what would I have been maybe 22 or 23 year old. I was still wearing a suit that didn't really fit very well to .
Speaker 2I don't get over it. Well, I bought the suit through you guys,
Speaker 3Editor on accidentally wore a competitive shirt, which I don't think they realized, at least they haven't told me yet, but that was a. Now there is, you know, it's all out now, but I turned up wearing this like kind of gray suit that kind of washed me out. Didn't look, didn't look very good. And the CEO we spoke for about five minutes and he said, look, you're obviously good enough to do the job. That's fine. But I think you're quite boring. So he went and picked two people out of the office and he sent us to the pub for the afternoon and he said, going to come back and if they say you're fun over a drink, then you can come and have a job with us. And here I am four years,
Speaker 2Laurie , this is your true story. All right . So like I used to be a pilot before I was a lawyer. And like, so I wasn't going in the military and fly fighter jets. Like this is like post nine 11. Right. So I was interviewed for a squadron and they did the same fricking cause like I went to this interview and it was like, I was, I felt completely was for a , there's an airplane called an eight, 10 Warhawk . Like I know what that is. But like if like super low ground and it like blows up tanks. Right? So like I went to squadron, do an interview. And so like, it was a three-day inter three-day interview. They did the same thing. Cause like , it was like, first of all, you already requalified to even make the interview. Right. You don't know that when you're young, you're like, whoa. You know? And I mean, there's always like fighter pilots there. I'm not a fighter pilot or anything. I was like a normal pilot guy trying to get a job. So like, I was like, why , at least I got past the first hurdle. But the so, but the actual interview process is exactly the same way. It was more like, can you hang, are you fun to get drunk with how competitive are you? And can you hang that's it that's a whole interview. And that's why it took so long. And like I could hang with, there was like 15 of us, 20 of us and there's only one position. So I was like, all right , fine. But it's the exact same thing. Cause they told me at the end, the interview, my buddy was in a squadron. He goes, look, dude, we got to hang out with you at a tent in the middle of nowhere for a year. You have to be somebody. We like, like, that's all this is about. That's like, wow. But the same thing to you , that's how good of CEO he is because it's all it mattered. Right? Whether or not you're going to fit in, not like, oh, can he do his job? Like anybody can do the job. I mean, if you're on paper, right. But like, is he cool? Can you hang? Does he get it? You know, that's awesome. That was the first time I ever heard that. That's a very good way of interviewing people.
Speaker 3We do the same now really for everybody it's um , where there's an
Speaker 2Every day after work, he just get smashed at a pub.
Speaker 3We do some work in between it, but yeah,
Speaker 2You like drawing on back of a pub napkin. So , um, so then you obviously pass the test, right?
Speaker 3Somehow
Speaker 2You lied your way through it. Just kidding .
Speaker 3Yeah. I mean they believed it, so it didn't matter.
Speaker 2Um, so, okay, so you get the job. How long have you been there? When did you start?
Speaker 3So I've been here for just over three years now. I started in October of 2018.
Speaker 2Was it? Well you coming on board only to do golf fashion or all kinds of fashion?
Speaker 3Uh, Gulf and our sportswear collection at that time.
Speaker 2So what's the story with Lyle and Scott, like tell me the history. Cause they've been around for like a million years. Right. But like I've been around for a really long time. They're an established British apparel company. So what's the story with them.
Speaker 3Yeah . So we are , um , old, we are established in September of 1874. So we are 107 years old. We've um , yeah, we've seen a lot of things come and go, you know, it's a ,
Speaker 2The Kings and Queens wars ,
Speaker 3Regime changes everything. Um, but so we were founded in a tiny little town in the Scottish borders called hike , which is about an hour and a half south of Edinburgh , um,
Speaker 2Right on the border.
Speaker 3Yeah. We're still based in that town. So we still have an operation up in that same time, all those years later. Uh, we now have a , a presence in London , um, as well as we do like our show rooms and the majority of our kind of office staff work in London. So we're across those two sites split across the two, but we've done , um , loads of stuff in that hundred and 47 years. We started out as a manufacturer. So we were making knitwear and particularly , uh, we started off making underwear. Um, so like silk and wool and underwear. We had the license for Y fronts around the second world war. Um, and then we kind of moved into fashion men's and women's. So we did some collaborations with Kristy and Dior in the fifties and sixties. Um, and then really focused on manufacturing knitwear around that time. And that's what took us into golf. So , uh, in kind of the early sixties, we really started to press into golf after the two guys running the company at that time, went to the open , um, and kind of realized there was an opportunity for a Scottish and British brand to really kind of , um, apply themselves to golf. And that's, that's how we started our journey into the world of golf all those years ago, 70, 80 years ago into golf.
Speaker 2So I guess my first question is that when you came on board, like, what are they looking to? Um, like what were they doing with the golf, like , and current clothing? Was it more like just the polo shirts like everybody else, or they're trying to come more like the outerwear, you know, like now it's more like apple leisure, casual, you know, but still golf. You know what I mean? Like is that some are , they're kind of moving in that direction where they already kind of doing that three or four years ago.
Speaker 3Yeah. It was a start of kind of renewed focus on golf, really . So we've been in golf for a really long time, 75 odd years, but over the last kind of 15 to 20, we probably haven't focused on it as much as we could or should have done. We had a fashion, the fashion side of our business that was really exploding , um , kind of around the early two thousands. It really kicked off around the, in the , like the independent music scene , uh , in London. So bands like the Arctic monkeys and the Libertines kind of adopted. And we, yeah, we exploded as a result on the fashion side. Um, and that's kind of where the focus went. Golf , um, took a bit of a backseat, but we decided as a company, what are the, you know, what's the thing that makes us unique really? And we felt it was our history and heritage in golf. Like we've, we've dressed the best players in the game. Greg Norman won the open , wearing lion Scott, Jack Nicholas has warned us in the open. You know, these icons of the game are really important part of our kind of brand , um, history. So we wanted to give it the focus and attention that it needs and make it really important to us again. And that kind of started around the time I came in to the company about three years ago and has had a kind of real emphasis in the last kind of six months to a year, we're building the golf team. We're expanding into the USA, we're building kind of our global business around golf. And yeah , we're going to go back on , man . Yeah . We're going to go back to being one of the most influential gold fashion brands. It's it's what we were before. So we're going to go back to that position.
Speaker 2Well, there's this cool. I think about you guys, like, first of all, like your designs are pretty sick. They're very classy and click and they're , but they're still like modern. That makes sense. Like, you know, and the price point is not like crazy, crazy high. Like I've seen some other brands are like, you know, 500 , 600 bucks or whatever, like a jacket, but like, you know, it's, it's affordable, but it's like, you get what you pay for, you know what I mean? So it's like, and I love your logo here. That was bad dude. Like, like seriously, that's like the most iconic looking logo. I don't know. You could tell you guys already are a fashion brand, right? Like what happens is you get brands that come in, they're not a fashion brand. Other guys are like, almost start a fashion company in golf and then they have to create a brand like a fashion. They don't have the, I don't know, what's the word, like background to actually create something nice. You know what I mean? There's like some guy's making it in his garage or something, but , um, I mean, that's why when I first saw your catalog show , I was like, oh, that's sick. And like, you know, and so I think it's really cool what you guys are doing. Um, so right now then are you focusing mainly on like the winter gear cause winter or like you start to prepare for the spring
Speaker 3I've got , um, thing is in about five different seasons at this point in time. Um, so we are about to launch , uh, our high summer collection, which is what we in the fashion world. We'd call it autumn, winter. Um , in golf , we kind of move away from that terminology because certainly in the UK and Europe, autumn, winter is snowy and cold and the golf courses are closed . So we position it as high summer and it's a bit more colorful and designed for warm weather than our autumn winter collection would be. So we're about to launch that for 2022 , um , two are kind of agents distributors go out and sell it into the market. But the , um, range that's about to launch to a consumer level is, is spring summer 22. And that's, that goes live January 1st,
Speaker 2Jeremy first. Yeah . Whoa . So you're busy as hell. Um, keeps us busy . How far out do you have to prepare for, for stuff? Is it like six months a year when you guys come up with designs or what?
Speaker 3Uh, so we , uh, we just signed off on the designs for spring summer 23. So that was January
Speaker 2A year and a half from now.
Speaker 3I mean it's, if anything, that's probably not far enough in advance anymore. Really when the world was normal, that was probably about enough time. But the, the pressures of , um, you know, everything that's happening in the world at the moment means that everything takes so much longer than it normally would. And yet 18 months is probably the minimum you need to do. When I see , um, I know , you know, it's a luxury to be able to work that far in advance and, you know, have stuff in the pipeline to allow you to work that far in advance. But when I see , um, you know, brands trying to launch a season ahead, it's, it's so difficult to do things on that tight turnaround. You know, if one thing goes wrong, you then really struggling. And that's the fear I have for when you see new brands or smaller brands coming on the market that they, I hope they can get through those kinds of initial seasons where you're, you're kind of working and living season to season. And you're not able to get that far ahead. Cause we ideally,
Speaker 2I seen a lot of brands. I'm not gonna name people that are smaller brands, but I've worked with, but like I've seen that where they're like, you know, they're doing a phenomenal job, but it's like, they're running around trying to get on it, like all the time, you know what I mean? Like, oh, we have to get all of our pants from the so-and-so and we make them only here. And I mean, they're not, they're not even like an overseas, like getting a made like in Europe or Asia, like a European, you know, it's just like, holy crap. Like tons of stuff . I mean, that's, what's so crazy about apparel, right? Like you have to plan so far in advance, right? Like what's it going to look like, how will you even sell? You don't even know if it's going to sell or not. And I got gonna get a ton of them made right. Then gotta get them out to all to, you know, your buyers, right. Try something out to the buyers and then they buy and then you got to deliver them. And it may or may not even sell it . You're planning stuff a year and a half in advance, like a year and a half ago. We didn't have COVID right. Like , like this is even on the radar. And I didn't really know his lien for a couple. I know like one of the brands I worked with is a very big apparel company. And they said they like heavily off everybody, dude , except for like the vice president. I was the only guy I was talking to at this point, like the head guy, the whole, all the brands. And he's like, I'm the only person doing this right now. I lost my entire team. I was like, holy crap. You know, now they're back to work now, but they're still behind. You know? So it's like, I just couldn't imagine the stress . That's crazy if our out in advance. I mean, cause that's the kinda hard part, right? It's like moving the Titanic. It's like when you're a big company and you're coming that far ahead, you gotta plan for that far. Have you're a small, a smaller brand. Who's not doing apparel. Apparel is hard as hell. Let me say my opinion on apparel. Apparel is hard, extremely hard because like I tried doing that. It's hard as hell. Like you, don't what you're doing. Don't even don't even compete. That's what I've learned. Like just don't
Speaker 3It is hard to do. And I think it's, it's hard to do , um, at scale as well. So you can definitely create something that's really cool and interesting, but are you going to be able to make and sell enough of it to be able to grow your business so you can buy yourself more time and then
Speaker 2So much capital too , right? Like, and so guaranteed to sell it. Like, it doesn't matter what you buy that it's like
Speaker 3That's spring summer range. If we are, we're designing it now. So you've got the time and energy going into design and we're paying people to do that. We have to go and pay for it. Um, weights probably realistically six months before we get it, we send it to a customer. Uh, they then sell it and then they pay it for us. You're talking probably a year to get back any of the money that we paid up for it.
Speaker 2I mean, it's a huge, huge risk, but it's also a huge reward. But like, but that's the gamble. It's a huge gamble. And that's, I mean, it's all apparel lens . It's not just a cough, but like, you know, I don't think, I didn't know any of this stuff until I started being in this world. And I was like, holy crap, like you saying , um , it just blows my mind. Like it's such a, there's so much capital being spent and you don't even know you're gonna be able to sell it. I mean, I'm not saying you guys, you're not gonna be able to sell it, but like you probably already, you guys can figure that out, but like a new brand, they have no idea. There nobody there, they have everything all figured out, okay, I'm gonna make some really cool shirts or whatever. Right. And then say, okay, go , you spend a bunch of money on shirts. Now you have sitting in your garage or whatever you start up. And then I get to sell them. And guess what? No one knows who you are. You got paid for ads, like all this crap. But again, once we're back, nobody knows who you are. So it's like, yeah. It's so you're already coming out with , oh wow. So you guys go to the PGA show then this year
Speaker 3We are. So yeah. PGA show in January, 2022, we'll be launching our high summer 22 collection . So that'll be the first , um, range that is available in the USA. So at the moment we don't really do anything as a brand on the fashion side or golf or sports into the USA, but we're launching into the USA with golf , uh, yeah. With high summer 22. So July of 2020.
Speaker 2So it's like a big launch for you as a company United States and Hey , Hey , we're here to play, right ? Yeah . What , what did you guys have to do last year when there was no, or this year? I guess when there was no , um, you guys did stayed in Europe then in England for ,
Speaker 3Um, the pandemic was a strange one for golf in , we were probably the only sport that benefited. Um , it's obviously very difficult and golf retail in particular was hard because it was closed for a long period of time. You know, an on-course retailers are , um, entirely reliant on their foot four . Normally they don't have a digital presence. So they need that members that playing in order to sell things. And so for the periods of time, certainly here in the UK where we had nine months of lockdown , something like that. So there were periods of time where the golf courses were open, but the shops weren't. So we spent that kind of year trying to support those people as best we could. Um, and then
Speaker 2First people or what, cause the stores weren't open and online sales, I guess. Right?
Speaker 3Yeah. So I'm supporting the retailers that were able to operate online and those people that in store when the could reopen. So can we go and support them with merchandising or sales stuff to help them move through inventory that they've been sat
Speaker 2With for six months? Exactly. Um, it's , it's all timely. Everything's timely. Right? So it's like designs come and go. So it's like, you're stuck with that for six months now. What do you do? Right. You try to sell it. Hopefully it'll be , I mean, but golf blew up. That's a funny thing, which is like the silver lining is like, after COVID, like, I went to the , I went to the PGA show last year for the first time and like, it was, I was blew . It blew my mind. Right. I was like, holy smokes. And then like coming out of it, I was like, oh , this will be a big year for golf. I could just tell, you know, just , I mean , and then COVID hit and you're like, what the heck? And then it just blew up like bigger than ever. And I don't think, and I think like, you'll never be like that ever again. Like, I mean, you're going to compound it over time, but it's not like you're never going to see like that big of an increase in any sport. Right. Like , um, but I just think it's pretty crazy that like, cause I think
Speaker 3You guys have more restrictions than we did the United States. Like we were closed , but not really. And then we couldn't like golf course we're open almost like right away. And then you couldn't ride, you could, you could walk. And so like the walking market exploded in the United States, which was never a market. I mean, it was a market, but no one ever walked we're all lazy. So we all got cards , but then like there , we couldn't do cards. So then like I know this for a fact, but like all the car companies had no cards left. Like literally everybody sold out like in the first month, like every car company in the United States. And like, I, it was clear to talk to them , to talk to them . Right. And they told them and I was like, holy crap. And so , um, but then when it comes to everything else, it's like when the shortages are happening, like, okay, we don't have enough product. So it was like what's happening here actually is, which is really interesting is more of the secondary market, like for products and stuff like that. Like you can't even get used clubs anymore. Like there's no one has used clubs. It's crazy. It's so crazy, man. It's crazy. And the thing we have to do, it's our responsibility as people within the golf industry is try and capture all these new people and keep them here. Right. We've had this once in a lifetime, hopefully touch wood once in a lifetime event that has brought all of these people into golf. And we've had booms before. Sure. But nothing like this, we've got more people now interested in golf from different backgrounds, different ages, different genders that want to come and play golf. We've got a responsibility to make sure they stay like, and I think golf is better place than it ever has been to keep those people like golf. Isn't just 18 holes on a Saturday on a golf course,
Speaker 2Change. The game has changed. Like I was talking to another brand about this and they said, and I , they like, you have the pulse, right. What's really happening, you know, sales and what's happening, you know , in the world more than I do. And I said, look, dude, you're like, I think they said COVID is it the COVID at last year, golf went up 25%, like the monocle for some 25%, which is unheard of. Right. Like, and they said like in the , over the next five years, it's going to be like another 10 or 15% or something
Speaker 3In the UK. It's more than a hundred percent. We have to
Speaker 2Crazy. It's crazy. It's like, there's no other way of saying it it's as obscure as having a virus in 20, 20, 19 or 2020. Like that's crazy. Like, and so like, he's like, we're talking about capital and like they're common got a ton of capital lately. They're like, there's so much money outside golf that wants to come into golf right now. Like there's so much like people want it right. Because they know it's like a booming market and how the game has changed because now you have , it's becoming popular. Like it's not just like, oh, an old white guy sport. Right. Like it's becoming like what I always loved . That's why I always love like supporting these younger brands. Like, because like, you know, like it's inclusive golf essentially. And what I found so interesting is, you know, the amount of people that are coming in and other amount of new faces in golf, like it's becoming pop is it's becoming a cool thing to do before. It wasn't cool. It was like, oh, I won't call it my dad. Right. Like, but now it's like, you know, you see famous basketball players playing golf. Like not like Michael Jordan melanoma plays football, but like other players, right? Like they're posting on Instagram, like, oh , I'm getting golf lessons with so-and-so and it's like, you know, whatever, Steph, Curry's really big and golf. All these guys are all into Gaul . And then you see like, you know, like rock bands are buying, turning on cough companies. Like it's crazy. Like it's becoming cool. And it was never really cool. It was more like, what's another sport you can go play. I don't know . I think the time is right. And I think what you guys are doing is like sick. Like , cause you already have the foundation, right? Like you've done it forever. You have cool designs, you have fashion like, you know, fashion and you already been doing it for a million years. You've been doing like British fashion, which is even cooler, I think. And then now it's like coming to the American market. Like I think you guys blow up.
Speaker 3It's a luxurious position to be in to , to get, to do something so new and at a time where the opportunity is so big with everything that's coming behind us. So like you say, the logo, the brand, the history, you know, it's a privileged to have that and to be able to bring it to somewhere, almost brand new, like the USA that haven't really seen us at all. Some people might have a memory of some players wearing it in the seventies and eighties, which is great, but they've never really seen it or been offered it. Um, at the scale that we're gonna do .
Speaker 2Let me ask you this question to you. Um , okay. So you've all this old footage, right? Let's call it of famous golfers, wearing your stuff. Take a picture of 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, whatever it might've been taken. Can you guys still use that in your campaigns? Like, or not really? Are you , or it depends on who took the picture of you if you buy the rights to picture exactly
Speaker 3The last one. So some of it we definitely can do. Cause some of it is our content and we did at the time. So, you know , at that time when we were sponsoring people like Greg Norman and um , Tony Jacklin , like they would give up their time and come into our catalog. So we've got digital versions of those catalogs from the fifties, sixties, seventies that we , that we can use
Speaker 2Because you took the picture , it's your guys and stuff , but with on tour or whatever, you know, then you got to , if you had to you , if you found some really cool, you did the buy the rights to it, essentially you use it. I mean,
Speaker 3Exactly. But some of the really cool stuff for us is yeah. The image of that's really cool. And you know, Greg Norman holding the cleric joke is , is a great image. But actually the sweater that he's wearing, like the design of it is so cool. We own that . It's us , we've got the actual jumper, it's hanging downstairs in our office, but the one who was wearing whilst he was holding that we own, we own those rights because we made the jumper at the time. So we could reimagine those designs
Speaker 2As often as we wanted , like the new Penfold is, you know, pinpoint like, you know, their story and like what's happening at Penfold. Like it's insane. Like I had I'm friends with , um, my friend Gavin is like the guy who kind of started it with the guy who actually owns the label or owns a brand is like I had him on the podcast a year ago before he even blew up. But when I , but when I learned about what he , I saw what he was doing an Instagram, like that's cool. And I talked to him and I was like, oh my God, that's a freaking coolest, like, you know the story, right? Like it just went away. Like it disappeared off the face of the earth. And like my friend Gavin, like was watching a James Bond movie and he was like, what's Penfold . Right? Like he's British because the United States he's like, what's Penfold . What the hell are they talking about? And he started Googling and trying to figure out what it was. And then all of a sudden was like, were like this , you know, mystery history. Right. And it was like, at some point just falls off the face of the earth. And then he's like, you know, and they started with more research. And after tons of time, he found out the guy who actually owns the rights to Penfold and they like, that's how they , they do work together. And they started Penfold all over again, like last year, but like do the history and that like, it's , it's crazy. Like what would you ever find that to find a treasure, right? Like, oh, here's an established golf brand for a million freaking years. It just died in the eighties, essentially that like some dude owns in England, you know, doing like, I dunno , I think it's so cool.
Speaker 3Well, the guys at Jones is similar, right? That like, that was a brand that existed for a long time. Went away to almost nothing. And now, you know , some of the coolest bags in the game.
Speaker 2So I love, I love iconic stuff. I love a classic golf, iconic clothing players. Like you can see with like the background I love, which is really, this is not like a green screen. This is real. Um, I love it. I don't know . That's just like our heritage, right. It's heritage of the game, but you guys are all bad-ass has back then. So it was like, oh, that's cool. But I don't know. I thought I was wondering like, cause I know with Penfold, you know, they have all the James Bond movies and whatever, but he didn't. I mean, now they're doing like, I think he's did a collab with James Bond when that new movie came out. I was like, holy. Like, dude, I don't know. I just think it's so cool. Like that's cool. I'm sorry. That's just really cool. And that's why you guys are doing something like, that's cool as hell because you have the history, but you guys really weren't doing anything with it. Right. Cause you were kind of doing was like, you play a really like mild, you know, like golf market industry, like, okay, we're just doing our thing, but we're mostly focusing on regular pat , you know, fashion. And then it's like, but do you have a history of golf? And it's like, cool. You've been around for a million years. Like, that's like, it's not like, there's no American brands that are like that.
Speaker 3That's it. And that's the thing that makes us unique. It's interesting. When you talk about Penfold, Sean Connery playing bond at that time, there's obviously the images of him in that film at the time he's filmed that and playing golf he's wearing and Scott, we've got the pictures of him wearing the crossover.
Speaker 2That's cool. I'm sorry. That's just cool. Yeah . That's so cool. I didn't even know that. Like I guess that's probably where I did see the fricking bird. Was it the bird on it ? What are you wearing? There you go. Yeah , yeah, yeah. I'm sorry the bird. But you know , like I think it's where I saw the logo and I saw it again. I'm like, oh I know this brand, but maybe in your brain. You're like, where have I seen this? Where have I seen this? Oh my God. So cool. So is that sweater thing you're wearing? What did that sweater or sweater ?
Speaker 3Yeah. So this is part of , um , the collaboration we did recently with a Japanese brand called Gulf golfers . So they're um, this collective of , um, art directors, filmmakers designers based in Tokyo, I think they found it in 2018 that love , golf, love everything about it. It's a fairly common story now. They love it, but they hate the options of what you had to wear . There was nothing that they wanted to wear feeling like you have to go and put the golf uniform on to go and play golf. So they started making these Japanese streetwear inspired golfing silhouettes that are just so cool, like that Japanese streetwear. Cool. Um , but their whole ethos, right. Is that , um, they believe golf is an ugly duckling. One day it will become like the fairytale , something beautiful, like a Swan or an Eagle was the way they put it, you know? And when I'm hearing that from them and like, well that makes the idea of a collaboration really easy. So , um, we S we kicked that off about a year ago actually. Um, and we launched it , uh , at the beginning of October around the zone championship, over in Japan as well that cause they do like a curated range of product for that competition. Um, and so, yeah, so this was just blending some of their kind of streetwear silhouettes with some of our kind of iconic pieces from the archives . So we did some knitwear, lots of men Tazia net where we did a rugby shirt like this. We took some are more modern silhouettes, like a hoodie, like an oversized t-shirt and released this. Yeah. There's limited capsule with a number of retailers here in Europe, in the U S and over in Japan as well. So yeah, a little collaboration in the world of golf, which hopefully is an indication of things to come. It's like the world of golf has just , uh , discovered that collaboration is possible. You know, you don't have to be scared of the other brands. You can talk to each other and make cool stuff happen . So we hope we can , um, continue to collaborate with, with lots of different people over the coming years.
Speaker 2No, that's cool. Sure. I just, like, I don't know . It does not. It's it's the uncommon, you know, golf attire , like seriously, like golf polo shirts are like boring, right? Like a bang old , plain old bull shirt. And then, you know, like LA you know, bad birdie , you know, they blew up in the last two years and they have some really cool, like, you know, designs on their polo. Right. Um, I think people want to see color and they want to see something. I don't know. Like I wear that. I really think we go right there all day long. That seems cool. I don't know. It reminds me it's very like nineties ish to like, this is as that looks as bad . We're looking at the kid. Right. I don't know. It just looks cool.
Speaker 3We definitely see that kind of more classic, more kind of sartorial where dressing coming back into golf. And for us, that's a huge opportunity because we can just literally throw open the archive to whatever
Speaker 2You already have a design. It's just like, okay, how can we make this more modern, you know , or put that spin on it or that, or that it that's cool. That's a cool shirt.
Speaker 3We have an archive up in Scotland that has either the products or the designs or the look books or the instructions for the machines that made the garments
Speaker 2So excited when you got the job over. And you're like, holy crap. Like they have a lot of stuff. It's a majority know that ,
Speaker 3Uh, when it , when I joined, actually it was someone's project at the time. So it all existed. It was all just kind of in the corner of a building. And everyone knew this history was that. And it was a young guy, his kind of , um, first job as an intern here to kind of scan properly, archive it. And he went through and did an amazing job catalog , categorizing everything. It's all digitally, you know, labeled now. So we can go and find it . And for like the design team downstairs, it's an amazing tool. They literally go, okay. The , you know, the reference for this year or that period of time, it's really cool is the early seventies
Speaker 2Totally do collections on that whole thing. Like, oh, here's we call it the 72 collection or whatever. And you could like retake that whole collection and make it a little bit more modern, but still make it look like from the seventies.
Speaker 3We , we literally did that this year for, I think it was 1986. We did some stuff in golf with, we made a collection, a little capsule around Greg Norman. So we did this beautiful kind of entirely knitwear pieces with these check designs. We've re re-released them in the fashion side of our business, all inspired by golf . So it's kind of , it's coming full circle now golf , um, was the first thing. And then we went to fashion and now we're coming back to golf, but they're all still inspiring each other. So even now , even now , um, the fashion part of our business, which is by far, the biggest bit is being inspired by what we used to do in golf, which needs to be the big bit. So the two things are going really nicely together.
Speaker 2So what are you doing just for the sports? Are you doing just the golf, you your job, or are you doing everything? Like, what is the, I guess what's the breadth of the sports that you guys do?
Speaker 3Yeah. We have , um, the fashion side, then we have sportswear , which is , um, has kind of two arms to it . It has a sports style section, which is kind of fashioned led sportswear pieces , um, kind of on the athleisure trend. And then we have a huge, yeah , massive now.
Speaker 2And there was like half the thing on your website I'd wear , like, I can see it right now. I wear that , sorry.
Speaker 3Then we have a , a venture section of sportswear, which is all about kind of outdoor sports , um, kind of tying back into a period of our history when we were making garments in Scotland, where we were making really technical outerwear knitwear pieces. So that's kind of how we tied back to that part of our history. And then we have the golf section, which is separate to , to all of those. So my, my remit is , um, the golf section of our business. So , um , growing and developing that , uh, here in the UK and Europe, and also , um , launching into the U S and with our partners in the rest of the world to places like South Africa, Japan, and South Korea,
Speaker 2Do I know that Japan is like massive right now, all of us , like beyond it's like the thing to do. And you came up on tee time there, like at all, like I know that that's what I'm told. Yeah.
Speaker 3They have kind of reversed the trend with golf in Japan. So they were seeing a steady decline in golf for a long period of time. And so unlike an aging, they have an aging population anyway, but an aging population, particularly in golf where the average golf was getting older and older and older, it was getting less accessible for younger people in Japan. And they, you know, the guys we work with over there report that, you know, we've seen a shift in the pandemic. You've seen it in the U S but they've seen a huge change in Japan and South Korea with people and young people going into golf, which is just transformative. There were , you know , people,
Speaker 2So many like little niches and golf right now that people like you, people could just focus on that one little part of golf when it call either it's a fashion, accessory, whatever equipment they're like, you could just be that guy who makes like, not the same as the big boy, but like whatever your inspired design is, and you'll still blow , that's still going to blow up because like, golfers are not used to seeing new stuff. They're just seeing the same thing, paint different color every year. Right. It's definitely,
Speaker 3There's so much room. Yeah. Golf is not, it feels sometimes like it's saturated because you've got these massive companies that feel like they dominate, but there's so much room for new .
Speaker 2I think they do. Yeah. They , they dominate equipment and they tried everything now. They're like going to the mall. Right. Like they do everything. They make everything, you know, and it's like, but if you make everything, it can't be good at one thing. Right. So it's like, I don't know . Like, I think that's anything, if you're spread too thin, you just kind of do it . I mean, your don't get me wrong. They're billion dollar companies. It's just that like, do they really know what's going on? You know, like they had , I don't know, do they, are they hip enough? I guess the better way of saying it, are they just very staunchy I'm not going to say the brand, but one time I talked to this brand and they're a club manufacturer is really big. And they literally told me no. Like they said, we'd love to, this is what the person told me. We would love to work with you, but we can't. And it's not, you it's us. That's the bathroom . The person told me, I was like, and I said, are we breaking up? Because I feel like we're high school and we're breaking up because, you know, and it was, but it almost like it was perfectly said , and I that's what I , like I said, people go like, oh, who have you worked with? And I'm like, why weren't the big brands? Cause I haven't because I mean, I review their stuff. I don't go get it from them because they're , they're different. But like, I just think it's cool. I've seen in the last three years, like brands is explode. Like you would never expect like really. I mean, they make seven, eight figures a year. I'm like, how, how, you know? But it's like, because they have their finger , they know what's going on. They know what's cool. And they like, I don't know. Golf's changed. Like , it's like, there's a lot of new, here's another thing to do that lie , new golfers, like brand new golfers that never played before. And there's all a lot of people that like just played it, but they didn't play all that much. And now they're addicted to it again. So they're like totally into it. Um , but I think you guys are in a very good position. Like you're, you're, you're just like, this is my opinion. You guys are like Penfold, but a way better position than Penfold was because Penfold was like, starting from scratch. You guys have been around forever and you guys never went anywhere and it's like, you already have a market. You already have designs. You would have a team. Like, it's just like, Hey, we're going to really do this now in golf. And we're going to focus on making cool, bring in cooler stuff. And I think that's the one hard part with fashion and apparel is that like, you can make new, cool designs and stuff, but like you're only you're limited. Like you were saying before, you got to be so far out there to get your , if you don't have the capital or the team, then you are literally just doing it. Your drops are like, you know, two months in advance or three months in advance, not a year and a half. And I don't know, I just, I've learned a lot too, just for me today. I are a lot more, but like, that's what I've learned in last year. Like apparel is very hard. It's the hardest thing.
Speaker 3If you think as a, as a business, so you take into account the fashion and sports and the golf , we've got 130 people that work full time on this, and it's still really hard to do and we don't get it right all the time. Like I admire these, these
Speaker 2Yeah. Five, 10 dudes trying to do it. It's like, yeah. You know, come up with like cool clothes. It's like, good luck with that. Like I
Speaker 3Manage the production on the logistics and get it here on
Speaker 2Telemarketing and you have the money and they're probably doing it on the side. Like the pilot full-time job doing something else. Like it can happen. It's just hard. It's a hard people. Think it is. I mean , that's in my opinion for apparel now, for other parts of golf, I think it could be different. Like, you know, you can buy whatever you want Ali Baba, but like, no , it's still all crap. So
Speaker 3Yeah. To do a Powell properly, design it from scratch, get it made from scratch, not buying something and putting a logo on it. It's really hard to do
Speaker 2Pass that. Like that's the first part of the job. Right? The other part , I was like selling it and now you're into it for X dollars. Right. That one product. Yeah. I just felt a lot of respect for that. And I think it's cool that you guys, I didn't know, you guys are that far out. I had no idea. I'm just not trying to be ignorant. I just didn't know. I figured, but I guess I saw it when it's the PGA show, you know, you see these buyers and like people, like, I didn't know what a buyer was. I didn't really a fashion buyer. So you look down the floor and you're seeing like people doing deals across a table, right. With all the swatches and all the , you know, and I'm like, what's that? And like, oh, they're just doing deals. I'm like, that's crazy. They still do that. Like, but so are you going to have a big booth at the PGA show? Or what are you going to do?
Speaker 3We're just kind of finalizing what that looks like. Now. We want to bring some of our, so we do trade shows all the time on the fashion side of the business, like pity and Italy or our bread and butter in Germany. So we want to take some elements of that, the kind of exciting way of showing products and having kind of trade stands and bring that to the PGA show, which if you've been , um, you know, it's, it's an amazing show because the scale of it is just absolutely vast, you know, and everything in gynecology .
Speaker 2Let's what I heard from somebody. And I don't know if it's true or not. Cause I've been on the fence about going this year or next year or whatever. Um, they says , it's like, even though they're like making it sound like it's gonna be really big. Like there , it's not going to be as big as it was in the past. That's what I was told. Like, it's going to be like 40% of the size it was before, which is like, oh, it's not as much, but dude, this thing's a square mile. So now it's a half mile. I mean, come on. Like, you know, it's all in perspective, right?
Speaker 3It's yeah. It's all relative. Um, so yeah, we , yeah , we want to bring some of that stuff that we do in fashion, into the world of golf show that perhaps you don't just need to fill it. Trade show , stand full of product and tables to write orders on. It can be a bit more engaging .
Speaker 2You got to have a cool booth and you have a cool like vibe to it. Exactly. And you gotta be like, you got to bring people into it by that. Not like, oh look, we have all our like row after row of clothes on hangers. Like no one cares about that. Like to show us your main stuff. But show is like who you guys are. Right. That's why I always felt like when I went to PGA show , I spend most of my time hanging out in the true leaks where booth and all it had . Was it a trailer? Like the sort of it wasn't like, you know, like people hanging out on couches and chilling, it was like crazy. Like it's so weird. I can't even describe it. It's almost like surreal the atmosphere, you know? Like you would never hopefully sitting next to you. What's his name? John Ashcroft, Ash Ashworth Ashworth. Right? The Ashworth brand. I was sitting next to him a couch and I even knew who he was. Right . I mean, I knew he was afterwards. I was like, holy. You know, like, and then, but it's just like, everyone knows each other and it's like, oh yeah, we're all just hanging out, having drinks, you know, chilling.
Speaker 3That's the beauty of it. But like you talk about being far in advance. Like that show is , um , too late. So we, if we took orders that show and only placed orders with our suppliers off the back of that show to deliver in July, there's no chance.
Speaker 2There's no way,
Speaker 3No chance. So like, we have to, we've already bought the stock before we go there hoping to sell it. But you can't be respon . Like maybe when the world was normal, you'd have enough time, but nowadays no chance. We have to place orders now to deliver them in July. Like we've not even shown our rate this high summer range to people yet. And we've already bought it in the hope that we're going to sell it. Like , that's the that's how far advance we have to work. The risk is really, really,
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, it is right. Cause if you don't sell it now you're going to sell it. I'm not like you got to definitely sell it, But it still lets the risks . It's not, you're going into it. Knowing you have sales, like, oh, it's guaranteed . Like we know what people always buy X, right? It's like every season you have a different design. Okay .
Speaker 3You've got the history that informs what you do. And you've got enough kind of trend analysis to say what you think might happen. But like that's, you know, it's really, it's almost the boring bit of the business. But the thing that perhaps worries me when I see, you know , new brands come along, they get this amazing, exciting buzz. When they launch something, what are you going to do with the stuff that doesn't sell? What's your, what's your next?
Speaker 2Yep . They don't. And that, but they also don't know there's no guarantees. Right? So like they think they're going to sell it. They're very, they're very excited about it. They think it's cool. But like, and it could be the coolest thing in the world. But like if people don't buy it because they don't know about it or whatever, the reason is now you're stuck with a bunch of crap for ,
Speaker 3If you buy a hundred and you sell 65 at full price, that's a really good result. Like that's , that's perfect. That's what you should look to achieve. What are you going to do with those that if they're not, they can't just sit in your garage for the next 10 years. You need a
Speaker 2Sales page where all your that no one buys sits there. It's like, no, one's gonna buy that stuff. I mean, that's the thing too. Like you look at banana Republic, right? I just buy banana Republic all the time. Now I'm just annoyed by them because all they do is like, you know, they're always, it's like, there's a brand that has like everything's on sale all the time, 40% off. But all they're doing is Jack up the price and cutting 40% going back to what it would have been prior to . And then they go, oh, friends and family or some bull crap. And it's like, oh, an extra 20% off. And they're just give you a 20% off coupon. They would have given you any way . So they give you 60% off. It's like, there's playing with the number. Right. But then at the end, it's their sales. Like it's always like end of season, you know, or not, they call it whatever it is. Yeah. I just don't. I think it's
Speaker 3And you have to, you have to strike that balance right. Of making full price sales, which is what everybody wants to do because it's
Speaker 2Always going to happen.
Speaker 3But you've got, you've got to be responsible with the stock that you're buying to keep your business going without damaging your brand perception.
Speaker 2Any of you a year in advance, right? It's not like, oh, I'm going to come up with a thing, a doodad. And you know, it's like, if they buy it cool, they don't, I'm only out a little bit. It's like, no, dude, you have a whole collection multiply by how many or how many per how many sizes? Like I was talking to somebody, a golf glove company and the same problem. Right? It's like gloves. The same issue. You, when you buy a golf glove, you can just buy one size. Right? You got to buy a small, medium, large, extra large, and you have cadet sizes . Nice to know you're like your order is twice the size. That was for one glove. And you may remember not even sell, you know? And it's like, oh, you still half of them. Now we do the other half. I mean, that's
Speaker 3Mr. Goldman
Speaker 2Trash. I mean, I don't even know, go to a Goodwill
Speaker 3Charity. Uh , these are the challenges we face, but it's um, as well, here's what we get paid to do .
Speaker 2Well , I think it's cool. Cause I think what you guys are like, honestly, man, I think what you have going on, you guys should be big. Like , I mean, you already are big. I'm not trying to like big . Oh yeah. You're no, I think like you already have the road in front of you. It's just that you guys need to like come across the ocean really and be like, Hey, we're here. So what's your plan? Like where do you guys want to sell in the United States? Like, and all the big retailers are you trying to go like country clubs or what
Speaker 3We'll have? Um, we kind of use the model that we have , uh, in the UK and elsewhere, we kind of have three tiers of product . We have good, better and best. Um, and then that kind of defines where they get sold. So we will have , um, we have a premium product and we have a premium distribution as a result of it. So it will be working with premium clubs and resorts. And then , um, retailers be that , uh , bricks and mortar or digital that are used to selling premium brands. So if , as long as they have adjacencies the likes of , um, J Lindeberg Grayson polo, like if they've got experience selling brands of that nature, then that's no big deal for them. Exactly. It kind of , they used to selling premium products like ours. They tell a story really well. They understand what goes, you know, the time and effort that goes into product . Like these, we're not selling a shiny polo shirt for 1999. They understand the difference between those two things. Um, that's where we, that's where it will be selling. So , um, yeah, all over really
Speaker 2Are most of your sales right now online, like for your brand or is it more as it kind of half and half or
Speaker 3We are , um , a wholesale business primarily. So we have our own e-commerce platform. You have to, obviously, essentially , and we have a fledgling retail business here in the UK and some flagship stores in Europe. So mainly in Holland and in Sweden. Um, but the majority of our business about 85% comes from wholesale. So that's our selling to retailers.
Speaker 2Yeah. You're the designer. I mean, that's really cool. So then like your online stuff , um, do you like sell through other online retailers? Like , uh , trendy golf and like stuff like that.
Speaker 3So yeah, we , we know the guys are trending really well. We've got a great relationship with them here in the UK. Um ,
Speaker 2They're already over there with you guys.
Speaker 3Yeah. So yeah, we , um , yeah , proud to work with those guys and on both the UK and on the U S side,
Speaker 2Are you guys looking to do more collaborations too with other call brands? Definitely.
Speaker 3Yeah. So we've got , um , a couple of really exciting bits lined up for kind of the next year. So we're now looking at what we would be doing for probably the late half of 20, 22 or the beginning of 2023. That's that's the reality nowadays of how long our collaboration
Speaker 2It's busy. It's like, oh , want to do a collab? Okay, well we're both busy. So when were we going to do it? And what are we going to do it on? I did my collaboration dude. It was like, it was only for one assessory. It was like nine months before they even launched it.
Speaker 3If you think , you know, you want to , if you want to start from scratch and design a garment, say from know , put it on paper, go through all the steps properly, prototyping it, testing it and making sure it's compliant, making sure it fits properly, making sure you can make it like it's, you're talking about a year minimum. You can rush it faster, but the risk is really high . If you only do it properly, it takes.
Speaker 2Yeah, because it's garbage and it rips or like it's not, it doesn't fit right now. You've all other kinds of problems not going to deal with. Not just it doesn't fit some guy , um, that's quality. Uh , I love the collabs. I was going to see when two brands do something . Well you did a collab with a Japanese company. It looks kind of six .
Speaker 3So that was that kind of second collaboration. We did it recently and golf. We worked with Melbourne in 2019. We did some again, like archive inspired pieces of , um, yeah. Kind of network .
Speaker 2So big right now, four years ago. I mean, I could see Malvin turning almost into like another, like Travis Matthews, if you ever wanted to where like it's gonna be such a big, like cool big company that they're going to get bought out. Like someone's gonna try to, I don't know if he will or not. I could see like, you know, he'd be on, he'd be targeted. Right. Let's put it that way, but like a big, you know, like here's my opinion, like what Travis Matthews . Right . You know, same thing like Callaway bottom out, right. Two years ago, whatever that was. I don't know. I just like seeing it's crazy when you see that you're like, oh, you're doing something right. Um, well , cool, man. I'm excited for you guys. I think you guys have some really like awesome design stuff that is going to blow up and just a matter what'd you guys, I think it'd be a different conversation than a year from now. And you guys are going to be like, oh yeah. Wow. That's you know, I remember, I remember I was talking to them. They were about to come over here, even though you're , it's a weird conversation because you guys are already around it just more or less. We're not really pushing it in the United States. And we're about to push in United States. But I think you guys are gonna like do really well in the United States.
Speaker 3We can have this conversation in a year's time. So we will be what four months having,
Speaker 2And you do that when you're working at a pub and you're also going to happen now I'm just a bartender and I'm like, it's okay. Oh man . Well, I'm excited. I think where can people find you guys online so they can check you guys out so that they can see I'm not full of crap. Like it's actually cool.
Speaker 3The website is lower than scott.com and then we're on all the social media platforms at Lyle and Scott.
Speaker 2Cool. Well, I think we'll be having a different conversation a year from now. And I think that like, I'm, I'm excited to do some stuff with you guys. Cause I think you guys, I mean, I I'll say this to everybody, like I think your clothes actually look cool and I'd wear it. I don't think it's that . I'm like, I'll never wear that in a million years. Right. And then I'm like, well, that's cool. I wear that. Oh, I've heard that. So it's like almost like a classy, cool vibe. If that makes sense. Like you could probably wear that to work kind of clothes and it's still modern. You can go to the pub or like go to a bar or go hang on your family or whatever. It's like, it's the PR it's like, I don't know . I'll give an example. It's like true links for our shoes. Right. I formed with the golf course or I can wear them to work or I can let them out when I go out here, it's like a multi, I just think you guys have that kind of style. Like, it's not like, oh, that's a polo shirt. We're only doing the golf course.
Speaker 3Yeah. You absolutely nailed it. That's like we, everything we do is it's golf lifestyle. Like there are brands that do the performance side of golf really, really well. And we're going to leave them to it. If you're selling on the technical features, the specs, that's not necessarily what
Speaker 2[inaudible] gourmet a cool shirt. That's comfortable. That looks cool. And it's , it's usually like , it's functional. We're not going to make you like the fancy Gore-Tex blah, blah, blah. You know, me , me , me , me , me do that or not. I don't really know. But I'm saying like, I think
Speaker 3For me, it's like, I go through like the gas station check. Would I be comfortable getting out of my car on the way home from golf to go in into the shop and not feel like I'm wearing
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 3As long as you come here and we're doing something right.
Speaker 2Well, that's a problem too with polos , right? Like everything's like the, those new polos that are skin as tight that like, you know, are supposed to be like help you keep you cool and whatever. But like, you can't wear that to work. Like you can't wear that. Like did you never wanna have to worry ? I don't care if you're the Buffet's dude in the world, like , like thrills , you know, it's like it's made for a purpose. Right. And it's like, but then also like you get those heavy, ugly polos that are like, you know, circle polo brand 1992 fake material, you know, it's like, okay, I grew up the work, but what I wear out in public, my family probably not been playing golf. Well, maybe it's not like hot outside, you know , it's heavy cotton. And it's like, I don't know . It's like, it's an in-between it's like
Speaker 3Striking that balance is, that's what we gotta do. That's what we doing .
Speaker 2Well. Cool. Thank you for being on the show today. I appreciate it. And um, you guys need to check out, you know, lie on Scott. I think, you know, obviously there are pretty big in overseas, but they're gonna be, I think they're gonna be big in the U S and um, I think you were going to show, let's do this again sometime look forward to it .
Speaker 3Thanks, Paul .
Speaker 2All right, cool. I'll see you on the next episode guys.
Speaker 1[inaudible] .
