We made it to Episode 47 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my good friends Andrew Redvanly from Redvanly Golf Apparel.
REDVANLY is a modern-day tale of two young guys’ bootstrap grind, family and friends hustle to build a brand and New Age family business that had more than relevancy. It was born from heart, soul, ambition, vision and passion for sport. Andrew, a hockey player, played team sports through his collegiate career. Shortly after graduation, he found himself on the court or links, with every spare moment he had. It was then he conceived the idea for a premier active wear brand, intended for those competing inside of the individual sports categories.
Soon after, he left his job at a prestigious sports talent agency to go back to caddying to pursue his dreams and to start REDVANLY. Before long, his pharmaceutical sales rep cousin, David, became the brand's sole investor while also leading sales going from doctors' offices to golf shops. They built the company from scratch, fueled by the desire to conceptualize a brand for athletes, which was actualized by athletes.
Belief and passion remain the cousins', and now brothers' and friends' driving force to drop everything, bootstrap a brand from scratch and truly achieve their goals.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/golfersauthority)
Today we play golf. Let me show you how we do it in the pros. Welcome to behind the golf grand podcast. I've never missed with the seven nine a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My plans were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range from pro talk. You should learn something each and every single round you play to fun from on and off the green. Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money. Just let me put the ball in the hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast. With Paul libertory behind the golf brand podcast is sponsored by OnPoint . The revolutionary three-dimensional dome golf ball marker on point provides a layman recognition as small as a degree of inaccuracy from the planned course of the putt face angle endorsed by Jim Furich us open champion and 17 time PGA tour winner on point alignment technology has been proven to increase putting performance and help lower your score. Visit OnPoint golf dot U S , and be sure to use code GA 10 for a 10% discount on point , make more putts.Speaker 2:
What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority. Welcome to the behind the golf brand podcast. This week, I have my new friend, Andrew red , Bandley AKA Dutchman from Rodin league apparel. I call him the Dutch and I think my only first night calls on that. But , um, so here's the story. My family is freaking cool clothes . Let me start right that , um, they sent me some clothes and it blew my mind. I was like, I don't really ever say that with apparel. I was like, oh yeah, that's great. No, for real, it's like, they're my new favorite short by far. Paul's really cool too. That's all they sent me cause it gets hot out, but I can't wait to learn more about these guys. Um, we actually kind of run the same circles. That's kinda how we met each other. There was an email with a bunch of same people and I was like, Hey, we should talk. So anyways, without further ado, welcome to the show veteran. Thanks Paul. I appreciate the kind words. So the first time I talked to him , we were like talking for like an hour or two. And then I was like, are you Italian? And he's like, no, he's like, I'm Dutch. And I'm like, okay, you're the Dutchman now? So that's like Lily out. Like , does he know him as a, like them? If I call him a Dutch guy, it's a pretty good nickname. I got to like , it, it sounds like scary, but like, bad-ass like, you should be like on that sailing vessel . Yeah. We all kind of noticed any people. That's how we met. It was very, it was love at first sight. We're like, oh, don't know each other. Why are we on the same email chains? So without what is red valley without going into too much detail? Yeah . We , um , were looking modern athletic wear brand that kind of was built and started guys that were now competing in individual sports. I think , um, uh, you know, I was a hockey player all throughout, you know, throughout college. And then, you know, once, once , um, once, you know, you start getting back into the well, not back into when you start your next life of getting a job and you know, living on your own, all those sorts of things after college, I think, you know, I found myself starting to play a lot more golf or tennis, you know, in friends, you know, going to Equinox and gyms and hiking and just you're doing something athletic, but usually you're doing it on your own or on your own time because we're, you know , obviously getting busier. So long story short was we wanted to build this brand for , um, kind of like your next part of your, you know, life in terms of, you know, competing in individual sports. And , um, that's kind of where like the thought came from and that's kind of the, the kind of origin this guy's . Guy's cool. He's a hustler. I must be , first of all, I don't even get hockey. We're just playing hockey. Yeah. Suffolk university in Boston. What position did you play? Uh , at that point ? Nice. So your left lane, it was really lefty. Well, yeah, like hockey is, you know, I'm a writer and everything else, but like with hockey, we think about when you hold the stick, right? Like you shoot right. You shoot left. I shoot on the left side of my body. But the put your right hand actually is holding the top part of the stick. So think about if you're holding like a hockey stick. So I was the opposite way. I was , I was the right way. Yeah . It's , it's weird. Hockey is like the one sport where you get like 50, 50 on people from the left or the right side, because your right hand is still dominant on the, on the , um , the top of the stick. So it just kind of depends on, I could like dribble or you're going to call it, you know, I can't remember the name of it. The candle stick handle early Irish shut up. So I could do that. No problem. But I always , always Iraqi under , I love hockey hockey. Like when I grew up, there's only three ice rinks in Arizona. So I mean, that was nothing. And I was one of the few people actually played hockey out here. I played late. I started playing like junior high and I like fell in love with the sport. I was like, where has this been? My whole life. You know, you probably were the reason why , uh, Austin Matthews started to play. Probably the reason why you asked and he saw you and said , I got to get going on. That it's exactly what he said. And he was like, oh , it's this fat dude on the ice. I'm gonna , I'm gonna skate like him. Um , so like my friends out of it , if I don't listen to podcasts , but it's okay. Um , I friend Stefan was on the show and um, he's one of the partners in alignment pro and I didn't even know that he was an NHL player. Like we were talking and he's like , oh, that was in the neutral. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then, then his other part was like, yeah, he was really good. And I was like, oh yeah, how good was he? And he's like, well , we played like 15 years. He went to stealing cups and I was like, oh yeah, I be on that dudes do it . And so then Stefan yeller who played for the lanch. And so he goes away for Boston and a couple of other teams, he cracks me up like this and that whole podcast, all we'll do is we're talking back and forth, but I'm like, it's so funny out . And I still, like, I love hockey. Like in the nineties, I was totally addicted to hockey. Like after that kind of , you know, like you said, right, you go to college phase two of your life. Right. And so I know all the players in the nineties and I'm like, oh, do you know this guy already know this guy? He's like, oh yeah. I'm like, well, who's the hardest player to play it against. He's like, Mario Lemieux are y'all ready , auger . Like, [inaudible] was really hard. I was like, I was like, holy crap. He's just like the guy that I was like, and then he's like, he's at a golf tournament. And he's like, oh yeah, it was there. Oh, he's, I'll use like, I'll play golf with Marty McSorley. And I'm like, I know that is he played for the Kings. I'm like a total, like, it's a , that's funny, but you can drop those lanes. So. Okay. So did you, where'd you grow up in New Jersey, right? Yeah. I grew up in Northern New Jersey about like 15 miles from like the city. The city. Yeah. Did you play golf, like growing up or just like for fun? Yeah. I mean, I probably started playing golf, I would say like maybe when I was like 10 or 11 and I, you know, had no idea really, you know, kinda just like hockey player type of thing. Like I'm going to swing and, you know, and I still have a little bit, I'm trying to work on , uh , work on that finally with some, some guys and they can kind of correct that, but , um, yeah, it was something that I always enjoyed the game. I really, really enjoy it the past, like six or seven play with your dad. Not really, you know, my dad played once in a while, but it wasn't , um, it wasn't really like his sport , so I don't really know he was a , you know, football, baseball, basketball, you know , kind of like your traditional , um, your traditional sports, but I don't know . I think I just somehow wanted to kind of get into it a little bit and um, I think I just fell in love with it, you know, it's , it's just a great game obviously, and it's , it's frustrating. And , um, everyone knows all the ins and outs about why they like golf, but yeah, I think, you know , in terms of, you know, probably with the next question back to like the brand , the brand, and I felt like we, I think golf and tennis and those forests that we kind of picked out were , were sports that we can kind of go a little above, like the, you know, kind of like your base brand clothing and say, Hey, we can make this a little bit better. We can do this a little bit differently. I think anytime with a business it's always easier to , to be better and to, to improve , um, and to be more niche than try to compete with some of the conglomerates and say, Hey, we're just going to come up with like a , a cheaper product or maybe like something that's a little bit less, I think, cause then you're going to kind of, you're going to lose that way. And I think, you know , the golf industry, you know, the price points, you know, you know, everybody's in like a, you know, any decent brand, you know, for a polo, you're looking like $75. Right, right. So it's a sport where I think you can kind of do that. If you were doing like basketball clothes, it's really tough because you know, you're competing now with like pants and stuff and like , well , you're just making it , you're just making a team . You're making like a , a t-shirt that could be sold at, you know , for like $17 . And then when you find out that the factory says, Hey, we can do it for nine. Whereas where are we making ? Like , and then you're competing with those huge brands. So I think it was a good sport to kind of sit there and say, Hey, I think we can hit a margin that we needed to. And I think we can do something really cool. So what year did you graduate college? Uh , 2009 oh nine. And then what was your degree in like marketing marketing, and then like , did you get a job in the city? So right after school, I was , um , applying for a gig , um , out in Los Angeles at , um , a huge talent agency called , uh , creative artists agency, which they're known for , um, primarily, you know, Hollywood talent music, and, you know, they, they like rep Brad Pitt , George Clooney, all those types of people, but then they bought out a sport division of, I think it might've been at the time , um, IgM could potentially, and they, and they just moved their whole sports agency into CAA . And so the guy that was the head of the hockey department was now out in Los Angeles. So throughout college, I was, you know, I , I made sure of doing as much, like , that's what I thought I wanted to do. I thought I want to be as a sports agent specifically in the, you know, the , for the NHL players and the law school . Well, that's what everybody kind of, you know , was , was mentioning. And I'm kind of glad I didn't . Cause you know, now, now I'm not doing it or I would have been doing the same thing just four years of, of money, dollar done a lot . But , um, but yeah, that's what I had, but this is when the recession was kind of going down. So I was waiting for that gig for like, I got accepted for the job, but then I had to wait like six, seven months. I thought I was going out there and then it never went through due to everything that went on. So I went to law school too. Cause I was like , I wasn't a lawyer. I'm going to go to law school now it a good time because there's like literally no jobs. Yeah . Like for ELLs . Yeah. So then you're going to move out there and you waited seven months, like just kind of waiting and times like yeah, it was in like a really weird, yeah. It was kinda like, you know, caddying and just making some cash and then just waiting and waiting. And then eventually there was a guy, a sports agent near , um, kind of close to where I grew up and he was, you know, small, small time, you know , agent, but had a few good guys. And I had kind of like intern slash like semi part-time work with him. And um, I think that's kind of where I started realizing, like I don't really think I want to put the amount of effort that I, I would need to and into like just not just the work, but actually just like getting into this business. And um, and then I worked for a talent agency in New York called Gersh and they are , um, you know, again, like a pretty, fairly big , uh, you know, actors and musicians and kind of that sort of a talent. And I went there and thought, oh, maybe I'd like it on this side. But actually I was like, oh my goodness, this is way harder than being a sports agent. Because like , you gotta remember like these guys, like if you like rap , you know, let's just say you have like , uh , you know, Brad Pitt, right. You're reading like 15 scripts a week and, and it just never ends. Right? Like there's just so much stuff coming. Would you never think that when you're like, you know, you wouldn't ever do that would be a job, right? You might think, oh, Brad Pitt places on his couch all day, look at scripts . Like, no, he'd be like , right . Everybody's got an agent reading him , telling them , Hey, you should read this one after I just read 15 only one's a good one. And then like, but like for a sports agent, it's kind of like, once you're in, it's a dream job is like, oh, it's like a , you know, you're sitting there and you're going like, oh, Bryce Harper, you just signed a 12 year contract with the Phillies for a billion dollars. So, all right, I'll see you in 12 years and we'll work out, you know, another contract and he makes like 1% or 3%. And that's how it works. They make a present age, I know up to 10. So it's like. Right. And then you're done one contract and he's like, I don't need to really deal with price or I'll be at rented . Okay. He's probably got a team of guys that work on his marketing contracts and you know , things like that. But in terms of the negotiation of, you know, the Phillies and him, that's done he's and it's not like he's gotta read scripts or he's gotta like, keep checking it like these good once that contract signed. So there is a lot of like, I think , uh, but anyways, long story short, I realized I didn't really want, like, I don't want to do this. And that's when I kind of figured there's really no jobs and I want to do what I want to do. Like, this is kind of like the time to do something. So that was kind of the push. So what year was that? I think it was around like a grad , probably two years after graduation. I realized like, okay, I'm just going to start a brand. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't really know exactly what the, you know , I just didn't really know much besides I'm like, Hey, I don't care. I'm gonna do something on my own. I have to, because nobody else is hiring. Right. Like I think it was one of those spots where I've always kind of wanted to do something on my own, but this pushed me a lot earlier on because nobody was giving me like an option a, that would be like, I'll do this thing later. Like there was no, there really weren't many jobs in the ones that you can get. The pay was like pretty much worse than cap , worse than caddying. So you're sitting there going, I can go up to the club on a weekend and make more money than I'd be making in two days on like a salary job. So it just kind of the rest of the week off to like do something else. Exactly, exactly. So it really did help with like an , I did that for a while . I was even like in the first few years in the brand caddying and just kind of like using that as like a, some sort of an income to kind of continue, I guess you can call it the dream of like doing your own thing. And , um, yeah. So you have two partners, right? Um, I , I have one, my, my cousin and then also my brother just , um , got involved in the business about two years ago, so, okay. So I know it was like you and Eric and Dave or so then who started it with Dave or error? It was , um, it was kind of like one of those things where at the time , um , that I was starting a brand, I was living with Dave and , um, we always been super close , uh, more and more like friends as opposed to cousins . Yeah. And , and we , um, you know, he was working in pharma sales and I told him about this and , um, and he was a, this is awesome. I'm all in. And the other , there was one of those situations where it was like, Hey, I'm going to kind of like continue to work the day job until the company is ready for me to kind of like , um, jump on board. And I'm like, okay, cool. I'm going to just do everything we can to get us to that point. And so I kind of like operated the company for a few years, pretty much on my own. And , um, and then we started to gain more people and they've jumped ship , you know , jumped ship. And my brother came on board and we have, you know, a bunch of other good people now with us and really started to build it up. But those first few years were just kind of like, you know , uh , uh , a complete, like learning slash grind slash like, just , it's almost like if you want it to start a business, you kind of like my opinion is dive into it. Right. Like you're going to fail and you're going to like fall down. But if you do it small enough, there's no better experience than actually just like catapulting yourself into it and learning it and kind of being like, because now we're sitting here like seven, eight years in and we're like, we really, you know, we don't know everything, but I know so much. I feel like I've been in the industry for 35 years. And I think like, that really helped those first three or four years of just kind of like, you know , being so small, but also being able to kind of like, you know, mistakes we're , we're not magnified as much. So then how did you, like, you guys are just a bunch of hustlers, right? Yeah. You can say that for sure. You know, that's the key, right? Because it's hard, this, this is hard. The guy , I didn't realize how hard it was until you start your own stuff. Right. Like making content that's easy. That's easy. Well, not really, but, but when you actually have a product, that's hard because it's like, now you have competition on all these other things that you'd never really thought you would have. Right. Or like does yeah. With the eyes on products. And so many people making the same thing, it's you have to be a hustler. You do. Right. And I looked at what's cool. You guys is like, if you look at is, if you go to Bailey's website, you'll see like thirds old mini golf courses. It's ridiculous. And they're like, not like some little muni that no one's heard of. It's like, there are nice courses and that's not easy to do to get those clients. So was green grass , like how you guys initially started out or were you, or are you online? Yeah , well, we , we had an online store, but I would say our business at that point for the first few years was almost entirely , um, Greengrass and wholesale. I think that , um, you know, we're looking back at it, you know, I don't think we were in a sense big enough to kind of have like the online presence that we have now. And, but like, I think we were good enough to get into a lot of shops that wanted to test something new that they wanted to bring a few shirts in view , you know, bring, you know , something that , that was different. So I think we really , um, honed in on that for a while. And now , um, it's, it's been a nice growth of, you know , we've seen the wholesale business really grow in the past couple of years. And , um, and then the online business now is, you know , pretty much equal to, and within the next year it'll be, you know, probably double it, which is kind of where we want to be. I think we want to have like a , you know, a really good wholesale business that, that , um, makes money, but also does a good job of getting your product out there with the right partners and , you know , um, accounts. And then also like a really strong cause obviously everyone knows, you know, either your online businesses where you really make the money. Um , but at the same time to the wholesale business, I think really does assist with that in terms of, you know, especially, especially on the golf side, like golf is great, cause it's like, it's a golf shop, right. Like, you know, every dude walking in there plays golf. So like whether he's your exact, you know , customer, you know, you think about like, if people already like narrowed it down to the buyer, I mean, it's going to be what age that's about it. Right. Like, exactly. So it is a very fine niche, like store to like, okay. And usually they're not that big, so you're going in there and you've got like six or seven maybe choices for men's brands . So it's like , it's like a gusta, right. Or some like, you know, cheap, you know, like, you know, I'm talking about like, it's cheap shirts polo with like courses , you know , embroidered on there, you know, it's like a dollar polo and now it's like $50. I was like, you ever really aware that that's what you get for free, you know, like a tournament. So it's like, it's, it's kind of cool, like that kind of sale. Right. Because then people are actually getting cool stuff. For sure. For sure. So then how many, like initially you're doing green grass and then is that what you guys were just focusing on while slowly building the online presence then? Correct. I think we were taking like small bites out of the apple in terms of , um, you know, what we would be doing marketing wise, how much we would be spending, you know, a lot of things. Um , along those lines that we're at a sense at the time, a little scary for, you know, a brand that , um, you know, we, we, you know, to this day, you know, we never raised any money. We , we don't have , um, you know, funding from, you know, some open, you know , checkbook. And I think, you know, we started this thing knowing like, Hey, you know, we can go out of business. You know, we can , if we, if this doesn't work, you know, we could be in a position. Yeah. You're back just on pharmaceuticals and on back. So , so we basically a little bit took, you know, said, Hey, listen, we know on the wholesale business, it's very simple in terms of like, figuring out what we need to order, what sold, how much money we made. It was very kind of ABC. Right. And I think the online was kind of like, wait a second. How is this going to work? And are we going to make money? Um, and you know, are we ready to really? Cause I think with the online business , um, for anybody, you know, there's, there's these funnels, right ? Like you need to be like on point and every area, your website needs to be phenomenal. Your product needs to be phenomenal. Your ads need to be really strong. Your email marketing needs to be awesome. Your , and then these funnels and how you kind of just keep it going to gain more. People are kind of it's. So it's so much work. Like you can't almost start a brand, you know, everyone sorts of brand like every day and they throw it up and it's like, you got the coolest product in the world, but no one's ever going to find you . Yeah. Or, or you might just not be, I think the thing too is like, I think that , um, you know, it's a build up, right? Like, you know, if you're just starting something and you have like, you know, seven products, you know? Yeah. It might be harder for you to gain that person to get products . Exactly. So you might have to go different, you might have to start small and try and get a few accounts to take it. Right. Like, and make it a little bit better . See when you're buying stuff. Right. It's not once it's like, when you actually have stuff in your garage, you spent cash for, and now it's like a whole other stress level. Right. Because now it's like, well, that's money. I spent, it's tied up. My capital is tied up in these products. No , it's it's um, it is true. I think when you have all that, that kind of going through your head, you know, you're gonna make sure that you make some safer decisions. So I think that's kind of where we were. And um, and then, but we, we knew that online was where we needed to be and we just kept trying to work with the right people and like start to really figure out, Hey, how , when did we start, you know, putting the, you know, the end of the foot to the pedal there a little bit more. And um, and now I think we've gotten to a spot where it's like, again, it's just like anything else, you do it for a few years and you really start to learn and you really start to see what's working. And then you start getting dialed in and not saying it . That is exactly you can't, you can't just figure it out on a piece of paper. Right. You have to literally do it and succeed or fail, succeed, or fail. And then like , you slowly start refining what you're doing. Yeah . Yeah . It's like constant change. Right. And we're still doing it obviously, but you're right. But even like stuff you did 10 years ago, you probably you've learned so much. You would never do some of those things ever again. No. Hell no. But you thought it was a good back then, right? Yeah. Sure . I mean, and that's the thing too. I feel like there's so much noise in people's inboxes and on social and everything else, even ads that like, you gotta be so dialed in or you're in lose your if you don't have the capital for that, but it's a constant balance and getting attention to what you're doing. So I agree. So when did like things really accelerate for you guys? Like what year was that? I would say about like two years ago. Um, you know, we started to, we made, like, I think there's like a bunch of good changes that were made. Um, you know, we kind of like really went back to the drawing board on some fabrications and we really started to focus on , uh , I think one of the goals that we had was I want to make sure that whatever product you buy from us , um, across the board, you're going to sit there and say, this is pretty much second to none. I'm not saying that ours is going to be, you know, guaranteed the best. But I think as a whole, when you start fabrication wise started touching our stuff, feeling it across the board, I want people to be like, no matter what I get from these guys, it's really good. And I mean , it's , it's at the top. You know, I think that was our goal. When we started to make some changes, focusing really hard on, you know, what else is out there? What are people doing and really testing our stuff against who we're competing with. And , um , that really was the start of, I think the change. And then we developed the ons that same year , um, the short to start and then the next year, the PA . And I think that really accelerated things too , with back to like online, I think, you know, you have an item, you know , in terms of what I was just speaking with prior about like really good fabrics and stuff, that's kind of a harder sell to somebody like swiping through Instagram. Like until they see it or feel it, then you'll get it. But to get that first guy to buy , um , those pull ons were huge because people are sitting there going no way, really like that, that got people's attention. And I think it's our key item to , I think like our like kind of icebreaker item to get somebody into our product. And then once that happens, there goes the flood gates with these shorts. Feel like what if the gateway drug? Yeah . Yeah . I mean , for us what it is , it's like , oh, right ? Yeah. I think every brand needs that, you know? I mean, like if you said a polo, everybody has a pool , right . So why is it? Yeah . Know why are you better than bad birdie ? Or why are you bad or that whoever right. And it's like, that's the diet that are used . Some other things are better, but if you have something that's different, then it's like, he has , nobody has a technology. Nobody has an design. Nobody has. And they're fricking cool as hell. But it's like, it's easy to sell a polo because of like, oh, that matches. Or I called them to buy the pole . Right. Or I'm gonna like , oh , they have polos. Oh cool. Because I really like these pants. Right? Like you gotta have a gateway. I really , yeah. I mean, I know that sounds kind of silly, but it's true. Like you have to have that one product or product , maybe one or two, like you guys did and you have multiple colors, but I mean, you got to have that thing. So somebody will draw somebody to the site that says, this is what really makes you different than everybody else. Because if not everyone right now would be comparing you guys to everybody else is already out there. Right. There's like at least four other polo brands that make sport polos . But yeah. It's like, but we're not just a polo company. Right. Those other brands are not doing pants. None of them are just doing polos. Right. I dunno . That's so I got my pants. I didn't even know what they were. Right . There's a story. Like, he's like, I'm going to stick. Like first time we talked, I'm going to say some stuff. I'm like, okay. He's like, no, I want you to, before we do anything else, I wanted to see what you think of our stuff. Okay, cool. Like I can do it on box and do nothing. And I get packaged in them , you know ? And my wife like put it in the studio and I was like, oh , I got a package. And I go, oh, this is what, this from red manly . Right. I'm like, well, what's this all about? And then I like, she's like, she was like, oh, well try them on so I can wash them . Right . So like I put the pants on and I'm like, whoa, these are like, these are not pants. These are something different. Like, I was like blown away because what it is is these are, these are not the typical pants. Like how would you describe these pants? Cause I don't want, I dunno . I dunno . Describe it . It's almost like, someone's like, you're wearing it's elastic pants and it's like, it doesn't even look like elastic. It's so comfortable and it's like stretchy and you can move. It feels like we're on like workout pants. Right. But it looks like a nice pair of khaki pants. It's crazy. It blows your mind. Like for reals , the comfortable, like, I don't know. I hate wearing , you know, like it's not as heavy as cotton, you know? It's like, I don't know. It just, I was blown away. That's a trick . I literally, well , there's very few products where I was like, oh , game changer. Like that was one of them. I appreciate that. And um , yeah, there , their patterns and stuff. I'm gonna take it right now. So you guys make the short elastic short and the elastic slacks. Right. And the jogger as well. And the jogger that are all the same material essentially. Yeah. Those three items are, we do two different joggers . We do like one, that's more of like, you're kind of active, which is like your typical like elastic with this front sheet. And like kind of just for like the jam or whatever, or just out of the bottom. Right? Yeah. And then we do the golf jogger, which is the same concept that you just mentioned with, like, it doesn't look like it's an elastic waistband. And so we have that, it's like a nice pair of slacks as it looks like. Right. I mean, I just, I love it, dude. I was like, I like taxing him . I was like, holy crap, what did you guys? I was like, oh great. I'll pull a company. You're gonna send me some polos. And then I was like , oh wait. He said it was polos Eddie , similar pants. I'm like, you better send some more pants bro. Got a bigger size. I need a bigger size. I'm not gonna say what I was about. We're laughing . So then what's your like goal for this year? Like what are you guys focusing on more online sales? That's kind of like your , for brand awareness. Like what, yeah, a little bit of, a little bit of both. I think , uh , we're , we're just starting to just try to reach more. And I think we're at a point right now where yeah. We're trying to push that , um, that lever down even further and just reach more and more people. Cause I think we're, we're in a really comfortable spot with , uh , you know, re , willing to bet on ourselves. Right. I think we're at a point where, like I mentioned, I think, you know, our products are second to none and I think that we will bet on that when it gets into your hands. And I think that's a great position to be in. So once we're in that and it's, you know, let's be honest, it's taken, you know, five, six years to get to that point where you're really like our we've done the work. We've done it for five, six years and we're still going to get better. Don't get me wrong. Like every year, but not your infrastructure. There have a foundation, you guys are making money. So, you know, you don't have to worry about it. And like there going let's, let's keep touching more . Cause that's what we do this for. Right? Like when you hear like what you just said, that's the best part. Like when you hear guys, you know, get the stuff and are just like, these are my favorite pants, these are my favorite shorts. These is my , like, that's what we do at four , you know, at the end of the day, like that's better than, you know, any numbers or whatever you want to talk about. Like, I mean, that's, that's awesome. So they were just focused on, Hey, let's reach more and more people to give them the opportunity to give us a chance. And hopefully it's a mutual relationship where they love them and you know, we get, you know, a customer and also just the feedback that they love , um , which, which means so much to us. And so I'd say overall, it's like, yeah, we're just trying to kind of just take what we're doing now and just go further with it, you know, in terms of touching more and more people digitally. I think where we're at on the wholesale side is, you know , the wholesale business is it's a harder business to grow and I think we're okay with like, you know, maintaining where we're at. Like we're not, because I think on the wholesale side , um, you know, you don't want to be, in our opinion, we don't want to be in every single golf shop . And the thing is like, when you think about like a lot of the places that you mentioned that are really great, that we sell to , um, you know, most of the places are private or high end resort just due to our pricing. And you know, there's a lot of those places, but before you know it , if you really let's just say you grow your wholesale, right? Yeah. Like it wasn't many courses like that . You can go to eventually every golf course and then you're not kind of cool anymore. And then all of a sudden, somebody else swoops in and they're like, well, this is new. So I think we want to continue to be new and a lot of shops and keep ourselves exclusive. And if, even if that means like to S to not, cause we know we can on the online business digitally. Great. Right. That's awesome. But like the wholesale, you're making less margin here . It's almost like you're , this is kind of like, it's important butter . I mean, cause you guys know, but also sucks, right? Like yeah, you sell a bunch of stuff, but just, don't like half of what you could sell for online, like for reals . So it's like, okay, well now your margins are tighter because daddy bought a hundred pairs of pants , but you've only made half as much as you would have somebody put a hundred pounds . Like you don't make as much money if it's nice to have it. Right. Cause it's pay to Jamaica, but you're only making 50% return on your investment or less. Right. And you're like, well it's just branding and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's still. I mean, I think it's the truth. Right? Exactly. That's why a lot of brands don't do. Like you look at these brands are out there now. Right. That don't do wholesale. Right. Like they do, but it's very limited and they don't even know who was wholesaling for them. Right. So it's almost, yeah, because like, for example, I was like talking to a golf course that wants to buy my towels. Right. And they own like five courses you're on the ballot. So it's a pretty big conglomerate. And they're like, okay, what's your, what's your wholesale? And I was like, I told them and I did the math and I'm like. I mean, like it's not that like once all of a sudden done, it's like, I've really made any money. I did all the work, you know, like literally do all the work. I probably lost money . It was money to pay me. It's like nothing, you know? And that's the hard part. It's like, yeah. I mean, what do you do though? It's good money. They'll get me wrong. It's just, it could be better, a lot better. I think it's and I think it comes down to just managing like what expectations are as, as a brand or a company with, Hey, you look at the pros, right? The pros are, we're getting, you know, maybe it's head pros that have, you know, some , um, some push with the brand that are talking people, teaching people, you know , the whole marketing aspect. Right. So that's a pro and then you're looking at it and saying, all right , well it's guaranteed money. We know what we can produce for it. Right. And if you get your orders in early enough, which, you know, a lot of companies try to do , um, you know, then, you know, okay, we'll just throw that into the production. Yeah. We might only be making X percentage on it, but it's, we're ordering more. So our prices go down. Right. And it's a guaranteed sale. It's not like there's no very low risk . Right. The marketing from men and you're getting the brand out there. So there's that side. But then like on the other side, like you had mentioned before, if you do it kind of incorrectly and you're trying to like, just put , and it's like, wait a second. You don't need to go crazy here. Because like you said, you might be going crazy for not that much. And you should be more focused on utilizing that product elsewhere. And you know, for example, too , you want to talk about touch and reach. It's like, you know , you can reach a ton of people online and you know, you're 48 pieces. That's sitting in XYZ country club, although that's good, you know, there's maybe 250 members that are having to be like, you do the, you do the math. So, you know , it's , it's just one of those things where I think they both do help each other out. I just think you gotta, you gotta know how to manage both. And you gotta just sit there and say, you know , this is what we need to do on the wholesale side. And you know, be okay with, you know, coming up with a plan on it and stick into it. No, I think it's cool. Like, because your price points are, I think are fair, right? It's a high quality product. Like, you know, that price range is it's not exorbitant by any means, but it's a higher price point then like what all golf stuff is, right. It doesn't matter what brand is . You can buy a , t-shirt a polo 70 bucks minimum anywhere. Right? Like a decent one. And then I'll lip a hundred, you know? And I think like pants like pants, price points were fine because like their pants, right. Like, and their special pants, I guess you call it, like, they're not the normal cotton you buy at the mall. Right? Like, and so you guys say like fit this really unique mold where it's like performance wear, but it's also like fashionable, you know what I mean? Like I can see some of your, I can see some of the competitors in a polo space. Like once they realize what you guys are doing there and be like, oh, I'm going to do that too. You know? Like you see it with bad birdie . Like everybody's coming out. The same design is bad. Burton can last two years like a million copycats . Right. And so it's like, I don't know . It's a lot of copycats out there. Yeah. And I think like we spoke about before we started, you know, I think that there's , um, there's a little bit of , uh , uh, I guess that's the nicest way to say we like what you're doing if other people start to kind of , but , but yeah. But back to your point though , um, yeah. There's uh , you know, people, I think people try to jump onto certain trends and things like that, but you gotta be ahead of the game. Right. Because before, yeah, because that turns on gonna last so long, who knows, what's going to end . I'm not saying it's a batch or whatever I'm saying, it's going to last so long. So if you're like a one hit wonder, you got to be able to evolve into something, whatever, and you don't want, you want to be trendy, but you don't want to be like the trend brand. That's like, Hey , we made that. That's cool. Now. Uh , I don't know. I think golf right now is just a very interesting, I guess, at the golf course yesterday, getting lessons that's right. I'm gonna kick your when you play fall. But I probably won't . But so, and I also look around for wearing , right? First of all, I'm going to tell you guys, I've never seen, I go by my house. Every bay was taken still every bay , right for it . So like my, my instructor and I ended up dry , like for the car , with the backside of the , you know , the backside of the hitting area, the driving range. And we played that from back there because that's what always , we go in like, you know , normal people can't go back there. And I was like, holy crap, dude. You know, like golf, I don't care what people say. Golf is , golf is just strong this year, as it was last year. I know it's not the only sport people can play. But I mean, I saw people wearing jeans, playing golf, and I was like, that person needs to buy a red family of pants, jeans to the Concourse . That's gotta be most uncomfortable feeling. Right ? Yeah. No, it's true. Tough right now . So tell everybody like what you have on the way down the state , you have polos, right? You have the pants. We talked about the shorts, which I love there is send me some more because I'm gonna wear them all summer. Uh , seriously. I love your polos. I mean , I have everything. Do they have underwear that joggers, they have hoodies like, Hey , it's have cool clothes. I dunno . You're special brand dude . Seriously. I just here's different. I dunno. I like finding brands like that where it's just something like, you know, and the only reason why I found you, I didn't know. I mean, I just saw the name, but I've seen the name before, like a couple of contests you guys did with some of the brands that I work with. But like, I didn't really know who you were. I just figured it . Cause there's a million. I've seen a lot of apparel brands, not just in golf, but like other ones that I've worked with that I was like, you know, I wasn't that really excited about, but I'm excited about what you guys are doing. So that's good. Kudos to you get the POL seal of approval means a lot, even though you're the Dutchman. Did anybody else call you the Dutchman? No, you , you were there . I got to give him a call later, actually. Like that's just kind of cool about what I do is like, I just make friends, you know, like I just, I think we're all kind of in the same thing together. Right? We're trying to figure out, listen, none of us were trained to do this, right? Like , like you weren't a professional golfer. Like I wasn't right. We're just dudes like wanting to do something fun and a support we like or sports. We like. So I think it really resonates with the modern golfer. So I think you guys need to check them out, honestly. Red valley . What's your, what's your URL again? Like with bailey.com. That's his last name? By the way, I was like high school with that name, the last name I was on your website with my last name too. But it'd be way too long. I had already actually put like a porn site. Yeah . So when are we going to hang out? Oh, wait. You're New Jersey. Nevermind. I'll be, I'll be out there. So I'll be at there sooner than later. Do you ever come out Eastern or no. No, but I want to, I think it'd be fun to like go out there. Well, now's the time, I mean, or the fall is the best, I think in terms of golf and weather and everything, it'd be cool. Like come out there and like, like film, you know, like go out there and play like golf with you guys. A couple of other brands I know that are in the Eastern seaboard. Like just maybe like up Boston and stuff like that. And that's kinda like what I want to do. So I will visit you. Maybe you guys caught the Phoenix open next year. Yeah , I think so. Think about that . A million people that drafts. Did you see that the NFL draft is like literally places just jammed? I mean, it was crazy. I mean, they said everybody was vaccinated and the whole nine, but the fact that that went down, I think, you know, I think things are going to start to, especially why I was like a super spreader event and they're like, oh wait everyone . I know a guy that got vaccinated. And then he got COVID. So I was like , he was. He was like, I don't believe this. Like he was he's in the army. It was like, he texted me like, Hey man, what's going on? He's like a COVID . I was like, wait, what? Yeah, it doesn't make you immune from it. It just makes it not as bad if you do get it. So it's almost like it's not a magic bullet. I'm not saying not to get it. I got my shot. I get my second shot Nick , this week actually. Don't you get, did you get, what is your second shot? Because they , the , I talked to you on the phone Friday, two weeks ago and she did feel sick, but my, my, one of my partners at the firm got a second shot and like he came to work. He was like, I feel like. And I'm like, oh , why are you here? Who's chilled and freezing and stuff. I'm like, why are you here? What is it like 24 hours or something like that? Pretty much like no more than 48, unless you like have some weird side effect other than a bruised arm. So, well now as the COVID, that's our COVID part of the show. So you guys can check out red valley , red valley.com. I'll give you the Dutchman cell number. If you have any questions, just getting one , one nine one, one five, five, five , um, seriously, the pants he'll blow your freaking mind. Like for reals , like I wanna , I want to try and get some more free pairs. So that's why I'm the , I've been as excited about pants ever in my life. I wanna make a workout. How are those pants? You can do whatever you want. I'm tired of wearing like basketball shorts and stuff like that. See pants , the pants, the poles really nice too, but I'd say the pants and shorts the bomb so well , cool, man. I appreciate you call the show today. Uh , be a lookout for more red family stuff on our site, on our channel. Cause he sent me a care package. So we'll be doing unboxing very soon and I will talk to you soon. Awesome, Paul, I appreciate the time, man .Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast. You're going to beat me like stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you're , when stay out of the beach and see you on the green.