Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

Ep #46 - Shot Scope: Gavin Dear (Chief Commercial Officer)

May 12, 2021 Paul Liberatore Season 2 Episode 46
Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
Ep #46 - Shot Scope: Gavin Dear (Chief Commercial Officer)
Show Notes Transcript

We made it to Episode 46 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast.  In this week's episode, I interview my good friend Gavin Dear the Chief Commercial Officer for Shot Scope.

Shot Scope offer a wide range of golf GPS devices which help golfers lower scores, handicaps and enjoy the game. Choose from their range of Golf GPS Watches or Golf Rangefinders to help you know your game and start improving. They have a variety of products from their Shot Scope G3 GPS watch, to their advanced Shot Scope V3 which includes automatic shot tracking and strokes gained analytics. Performance tracking allows a golfer to analyze their game and make informed decisions based on the golf data produced automatically from the Shot Scope tracking tags. The free golf app with no subscription allows the golfer to quickly upload their round and analyze statistics such as fairways in regulation and find out how far golfers hit each club. There is no tagging or phone required on the golf course, the data is collected automatically for post round review.

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/golfersauthority)
Speaker 1:

What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority. Welcome to behind the culprit podcast. This week. I have a dear friend of mine. I have friend Gavin deer from shot scope. We have been friends. I don't even know how long I bet she's been like two years to an NA . I bet it's been like two and a half years actually. Um, shod scope, if you guys don't know, we actually have a couple of have products now. Uh, when I first met them, they had their watch out. I think that was a B2 . Would that be too much? The James called it as V2 and I was like, Holy crap, this is cool technology, but actually here's a story. Here's a story. Gavin. Gavin's cool guy. He's Scottish. He lives in Scotland and he's, I don't know, maybe become brilliant , actually become friends, which is actually cool. So without further do , welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Cheers. Thanks Rob meal . Where are you located currently? Um , in golf terms, about 30 minutes from Andrea's 30 minutes from Kronos state and a town called Perth , which is up the road from Glen Eagles.

Speaker 1:

So, so you're like in the triangle, are you in the Bermuda triangle of golf ?

Speaker 2:

Eh, no , not quite. I mean I'm East East center of Scotland. So

Speaker 1:

I know where you live. Cause I found it the other day. I was just telling them that it's probably all creeped out. Um, but I was like, Oh, it's really cool. Cause it's so different where you live and where I live is like completely different worlds, you know? And it's beautiful there. I think I would love to live there. You know, everything here is like planned, you know what I mean? Like when we people set all the West coast or the West like plan communities, everything's in a square, you know, and there it's like we're going to build a neighborhood in the middle of the farm area. Yeah .

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well it's , I suppose it's , it's cool all there to an extent, you know, it's a little bit, yeah. So , um, yeah, it's , it's all different. I mean, where, where the little village where we're not , it's called skin. Um, and it's famous for a place called skin palace, which was the , um, where they used to crone Kings of Scotland sort of hundreds of years ago,

Speaker 1:

Like Robert, the Bruce. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And there's a stone there and that stone is where the Kingswood would be chromed on. And so You're looking at like the hedge , the history of the places obscene. Um, so yeah, no , that's cool. And obviously a lot of good golf courses,

Speaker 1:

Braveheart. So I love Braveheart so much that I wore a, of my, like my grandfather . I was telling you, last time we talked, like my grandfather was Scottish. And so like we had a family tart . And so I actually remember wearing that to prom because I probably would get made fun of about this. Now shouldn't tell a story. But um, that's like when Braveheart came out, right, that's one of my senior prom and I was like, I don't care. It's the coolest movie of all time. And I looked good. I was skinny and I was in shape. So I just send that picture to you and be like, thinking of you.

Speaker 3:

I , I, I don't, I don't need, I don't need that picture in my life. That's fine.

Speaker 1:

The first time I ever talked to Gavin, this is what I'll tell you. I found Gavin. Right ? I found shots go . I think I was just searching something. I was doing a review. This is like three years ago. And I never told you this, you think it's going to retarded. So I sent an email and two to show scope and it went to Gavin, but I thought it was going to be like Gavin and customer service. Right? No, it was Gabby , the chief marketing officer. Right. I didn't know that, but they , the way his name is is Gavin deer . But then I thought I was named was Govender . Right? I'm like, Oh, he's from India. And the first time I talked to him was a Scottish guy. And I was like, it blew my mind. I was like, wait a minute. That Spanish . Cause I thought I was like, swear to God. Right. So, cause his emails , like I don't think it was emails, but it's the first and last name shocker. Right? So it looks like a vendor. It's not so that I have told you that that was the first time, but then we ended up talking. Right. We didn't even know each other. How long did we talk that first time?

Speaker 3:

Yeah . A couple of hours, couple

Speaker 1:

Of hours. Like for reals , it was just like, we started talking strategy and he started helping me buy Facebook ads. He's like, Oh this is log in and check your Facebook ads. I was like learning how and Facebook, like, that's how cool this guy is. Right. So I love this guy. Um, and we've been friends ever since. Um, so tell me about shots , scope . Like how long have you been there?

Speaker 3:

Um , so the company , uh, I think we've been going six years now. Um, I've been there for five and a half when they started. Yeah . Um, and we are best known for performance tracking, but we also do GPS only devices, laser range finders. Um, but you know, our, our survey bread is a performance tracking and how we allow the golfer to come and understand their game. And then the aim is to get them to improve. Really.

Speaker 1:

Um, let's go back on a thing called time machine. So did you play high school golf or whatever you guys call it there? We don't have high school golf here. You have. So we have,

Speaker 3:

We have club golf. So I play at a club golf County golf. Um, I then went across to America, played college golf.

Speaker 1:

Did you really, I didn't know that. Oh , able to read about where'd you play golf at Lynn university

Speaker 3:

In Boca, Raton, Florida. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Scottish

Speaker 1:

Kid covered a Boca Raton.

Speaker 3:

There were, there were a couple of scotch kids , um, different, different lifestyle. Really enjoyed it there for all four years. Yeah. Four years the division three division. So we were, we were top ranked division two or the last two years because you were on a team, eh , eh, no, give it , give us two . We had really good. I thought you were just like, I know we had five strong players. Um, I then finished college, came back, played amateur golf, played for Scotland, play Wade Walker cup in 2009 . It Marion won the world amateur championship when the European amateur championship .

Speaker 1:

Wow. Really? Yeah . This is like the most successful golfer I've had on the show. If you don't us . Oh man. You're my friend. I just took him. He was

Speaker 3:

Cool

Speaker 1:

As hell. I think I have a podcast.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So we're uh, we won the, I was part of the three-month team that won the world amateur championship in Oh eight down in Australia. So we beat the, I think we were 11 shots ahead of the U S team who was Billy Horschel Fowler . Jamie loved Mark. Seriously? Yeah. Um, Play-Doh nine Walker cup . I got up to about 10th in the world for amateur golf. Um, and then turn pro played for sort of four and a half years challenged her, which is like the corn fed hitter in England. And then all Europe I played, played in Colombia , played in Kenya, played in Kazakhstan everywhere.

Speaker 1:

You see bore out while you were there.

Speaker 3:

And I actually, I go say Kazakhstan is a lovely place by the way. Is it ? Yeah. Really nice. Um, so yeah, just play

Speaker 1:

My mind is so blown right now because I thought you were like, yeah, I went to college and I did some marketing . I played golf. Cause most people say, Oh, I play golf. My dad, you know? And then I found like, you know, either I play the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No dude. You're like, Oh I want this thing. I want that. I'm top of the world for this. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what do I do that good. I right . Why , why did you stop playing?

Speaker 3:

Um , I just, I would just make what I spent , you know, you're just, you were just not going anywhere. So I got to the stage where I thought, you know what, young enough to go and do something else and ended up wanting to get out of golf. And then through one thing or another, I ended up, you know, that show scope I'm back here

Speaker 1:

And golf. It's so funny because he's like, did you just like Google me before you talked to me? And I'm like, no, why would I do that?

Speaker 3:

This is my second or third podcast I've done where the guy, some, one of them, one of the guys say Chris McKeon actually. And you know Chris ? Yeah . Um , he was like, Oh right, okay. So, you know, what's your handicap and now no , it's what the new system is says zero scratch. But I used to be off plus five. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Tell her , I don't care . Like I'm, I'm happy to hear this because I'm like, I like you that much. And I'm like, Oh , that's so freaking cool. Cause I was like, you for who you are. I was , you know what I mean? Like you get to do a show and be like, Oh my kiss your. I would never do that. I just want to be like, tell me about you. That's awesome. So, wow. Holy crap.

Speaker 3:

Different life.

Speaker 1:

So how many years was that? If you like dealing with like not dealing with it , like doing all that, like 10? Not including.

Speaker 3:

I went , I went to college in 2002. Um, and then I quit playing professionally in 2013.

Speaker 1:

Why did you just do amateur? Cause he never made the cut. Is that why? Cause you're doing so well. It sounds like,

Speaker 3:

So I played amateur golf up until 2009 term professional.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you're a dipper pro. But at that point you're just like trying to make the money, right? Like, yeah. That's a hard life. Right? Cause you're playing like every weekend you may or may not make any money that we in is rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Right.

Speaker 3:

And , and the travel , I mean we were playing go there. Oh yeah. I mean you're playing all over the world and on the challenge tour . Um, I, and yeah, I just, you know, there's only sharing

Speaker 1:

Right. And exciting and whatever. And then at some point you're like, dude, I gotta make some money, you know? Or

Speaker 3:

I mean, the thing is you're ma you're making money, but you're spending money.

Speaker 1:

You know , you're traveling, I call it. It's not cheap travel, not just to stay there and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3:

I was doing 120 flights a year. So, you know, and, and , and people go, I mean, I do that with my work. It's like, yeah, yeah. But you don't pay for it.

Speaker 1:

Your company does. And you know, like , um , fly to Cincinnati or something like, you're not flying like Kazakhs . Right .

Speaker 3:

We're done Kazakhstan South Africa, India. Okay .

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And it costs a buttload of money and then you have to stay there, which you know, and then

Speaker 3:

So they , yeah . But you know what really enjoyed it. Good experience in other world lived out here. We could play

Speaker 1:

All the time. You could like be my coach.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. No, I'm not very good at coaching people. You probably no , no , I can. I can see, I can see the issue. I have no idea how it affects. It is probably the best I can just wait to myself to describe it. If that makes sense. Now it's whisper is it's a , it's a different skill set teaching something ,

Speaker 1:

Just kill yourself because you're like the worst call I've ever seen. And then like, even though you don't have to like fix it, they're like you should play a different sport. Um, dude, so fricking crazy. Um, so who have you played with before? That's like still playing, obviously you named a couple of people, right.

Speaker 3:

Played with Roy Fowler, partial . Uh Benayoun is a good golfer now in the PGA tour and Harmon . Um, obviously quite a lot of the European golfers I would've played with. Um,

Speaker 1:

We sponsored it all or know who sponsored ?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I had sponsors from various companies in Scotland. Um , my golf club that I grew up playing, they did quite bit sponsorship for the first couple of years. Um, so yeah, no, I did. Okay. That way.

Speaker 1:

Um, so then you did that till 2013. And then what happened? Like did you go back to school or what was your, what was your degree in when you were in college?

Speaker 3:

I am, I did Mark thing . And then I went into the masters , um, while I was playing golf and information systems. And then it was a case of finished golf. What can you get jobs ? As I actually ended up in a course when I went to Babson college in Boston for six months , um, on a sort of entrepreneurial course. And then during that time, I got chatting with David who who's the kind of coming up with the idea or in short scope and sort of start when I returned from America , um, started with the company. And at that time there was three of us really. Um, David Lewis who's our CTO was the third and , and we kind of went from there.

Speaker 1:

Step-by-step what year was that?

Speaker 3:

20, 15 . 15. I think. I don't know if they all marriage

Speaker 1:

Floating around, but you were like going back to school and like doing some stuff for like a year and a half. And then how'd you meet the guys from like David and everybody?

Speaker 3:

No, the core side is on , um, David was at an event in Edinburgh chatting to some people and I was actually staying with the person, he was chattings husband. And she said , uh, chem SAR said, Oh, you should have a chat with Gavin. He's he's a golfer. And you you're gonna need some golf experience in your team. Um, and it kind of started through that way. So it was cool, but fortune ,

Speaker 1:

Right . You never know where you're going to

Speaker 3:

That's it, you know,

Speaker 1:

That is brilliant . Cool. So then when did, so like, as in generally good to Jen on the team,

Speaker 3:

Jen , so , um, our marketing is eighth of Jen Saxton. She is, yeah, she's a really good golfer. Plays off plus one plus two . Um, really? Yeah. She's , she's always been amateur , um, really competitive. Um, I can see that. Yeah. And , uh, you know, once, once to have money matches when I'm sort of trying to do other things, but she's, she's, she's pretty dangerous for the golf club . She's she's a good golfer.

Speaker 1:

Um, so like last year I finally got to meet Gavin and I was like, they didn't have [inaudible] . This is at the PGA show. And so I work , I've been working with both you and Jennifer, like Paul , you know , since the beginning. So I was like, you're pretty much visible . I was the most excited to meet with you. I've all my friends, everybody. And then I was like, I remember when I sign them , I'll give you a hug. And you're like, what the hell? And I'm like, it's like happy to see you. Cause I was like, I just feel like I know you so well, I actually don't know anything about you were actually, you had a second life before that it was still cool. We hung out and then he's like, it was like, he's a drug dealer. He like received see this big round table. Right. And he comes over, he goes, do you want to see the new watch? That's coming out? But no, one's seen it. And I was like, Oh yeah. And then he like opened it up. Like, like he had a jewelry store is like, and then like this shining light came out and it was like, he's like, this is the V3. It hasn't been released. And won't be released for at least another couple more months. And no one knows about it. I was like, this is going to change everything. You know, I just knew it. I'm like, Oh crap. Because so V2 was there a V1 I'm there ?

Speaker 3:

Uh , I don't have one. They're pretty rare.

Speaker 1:

It's like an old swatch watch. But with like a ,

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean it was proving the technology, but I would say,

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah. How's would you do it? Right? It's like a, B one of anything. It's not even close to what you want to be, but it's getting it out there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

So the [inaudible] the first, the first thing was the watch. Right? Those are first products. Yes. Yes. When V1 came out, what year was that? Like 16.

Speaker 3:

Eh , I want to say we at 2017,

Speaker 2:

You would think I would know this 2017 . Yeah .

Speaker 1:

Talk to him on the show today. Yeah,

Speaker 2:

Exactly. I mean things, things I should know regardless. So T V one was 2017. V2 was , uh, I want to say August or September, 2018. That's on her talking to you right around then. Yeah. And then V3 was, well , it ended up being July, 2020

Speaker 1:

Because you're supposed to reset March or weren't you or something. Yeah. That was the plan. I remember you telling me that like, Oh, this is going two months. I'll send you one. Once we get them in where we get them ,

Speaker 2:

That was the plan. And then we manufacturer Malaysia and our , um, our manufacturing plant, which affects all of Malaysia thing for seven weeks. So yeah.

Speaker 1:

So V1 comes out to be one half the, the things for the club too .

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So then all the tracking, but it didn't have a screen. Okay .

Speaker 1:

The word attract that , what ? It goes on an app or something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. When we just went to the app, you uploaded it to the app.

Speaker 1:

So essentially like tell people what shot scope is, but they're more it's , I'll give you my opinion after you tell them why, like you guys as product the best.

Speaker 2:

So, so yeah, so I mean, B3 is, it's two products in one, on one side, it's a GPS watch will tell you from it'll back, give you all the hazard distances. Um, and on the other side, while you're playing, it will track you around the golf course. So it will figure out exactly how far you've hit every driver and kosher hit your seven irons , how long you've hit your pots. Um, and after the range , you can upload all that data in sort of five seconds to the app. And then the app provides a suite of information to sort of give you feedback and make sure you're in a position that you can improve your golf.

Speaker 1:

So what I always thought was the coolest thing. Right. And he taught me this actually. And I was like, wow, is this a V2? I know it was same thing with V3 , but with B2 , the differentiator, because they're like, Oh, this is another watch our makes my room makes money. But the key difference outside of the technology is you guys create your own data and you guys make your own data right now . Nobody else does that. He taught me that like, everybody else buys it from a company, right? Yeah. Like a centralized company that has all the data points on a golf course.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So the course mapping. Yeah. So I can , Oh wow. Um, it be 2016. We were looking around and it was a case of if you want distances on golf courses, you're going to have to it from one of two companies. And we're looking at that going well, we want to be able to use that information in different ways with performance tracking. So we created our own system. We've had , um, we started with no courses and we would map our own courses , um ,

Speaker 1:

Near you. Right? Yep . Did you initially license the data and then took that offline or no, you just,

Speaker 2:

Nope . Nope . We started from scratch. Um, we , we did some with V1. We did some funny things. So we were able to, you know, we made the system so that if you went and played on a course that wasn't mapped, it was still tracking your data. Then we could remap it and reprocess . Um, and now we've got, I think 37,000 courses on our database. Um ,

Speaker 1:

This is amazing, right? Cause you said you taught me that like, because Garvin and everybody else, everybody else, I don't know. I don't know what your competitors are. Like they all buy from the same repository of company, right. Of data point data, not your personal data, but like data of golf courses and the Bob them is what Gavin, when they do that.

Speaker 2:

Well, if you, if you want, so friends , a couple of things that happen pretty commonly your core switches, the nines , or your course goes and adds a new green or a bunker. You're going to have to try and get in touch and get them to change the course. And of course, if you're going to a different watch, they don't want that right. Access to do that. Whereas with us, I mean, you could tell me right now, your course, I can log it into the system, change it hit submit, and it will then come up on the app as an update for a course. So the system's all created and our support guys, they probably change a boat , 150 courses a week, you know? And , and that's, and , and that sounds a lot, but actually courses are always making alterations changes, adding new teas , you know, really simple stuff. So we , we keep on top of that, which means, you know, you're, you're always getting reliable information on your watch and timely information on your watch as well.

Speaker 1:

So what's like, cause I remember you telling me this, like the numbers, right? So you said that when I was, I don't remember before, like if you call customer service right. Or whatever, email them and say, Hey, your golf, my golf course is not correct. They did this, right? Like they've got a new bunker here or are they, you guys are able to change it, how fast?

Speaker 2:

So we all generally do it within 48 hours. Um ,

Speaker 1:

Crazy before I, you know, that was the fastest time he said, he said , I could do it 48 hours. That's the best I've ever received . But sometimes it might take it up to a week or something, but now it's like, that was two years ago, right. Or two and a half years ago,

Speaker 2:

It'll pretty much be done within 40 hours and published then available to update on your watch. And you know, and again, it's, there's trust on our side that the users correct and asking for the right information and explaining it. And sometimes, you know, there's, there can be a lag in site , satellite imagery. So some of the times we'll end up working pretty closely with users to make sure that our mapping underneath is completely correct. So it can become a little bit of a longer process at times. But I , what we tend to find is the users are delighted that we are , we're able to, we're able to do so, man, a good example of that is my home course. They added a debt on the 12th hole and I went up and looked at that and thought law I'll map this for myself, but we've got a boat, 35 users up there. So all the short scope guys have got [inaudible] , which is a problem for your second shop . Um, they've got that correctly and maps and no other watch providers close .

Speaker 1:

And they don't really give a either because one of the billion courses out there that they're not, they don't, they don't manage the database of information. They're just buying it . So essentially you're just buying a piece of equipment, that's it? Right. Not the data. Um, you know, and so that's when you guys told me that I was like, Whoa, that's cool . Right. Because most, no one else did that. You know, like at all. Um, yeah,

Speaker 2:

I mean, it's turned into a competitive advantage for us in the beginning. It was just solving a problem. And so how

Speaker 1:

Many golf courses are on there now?

Speaker 2:

And I can check from my daily email. Yeah. We've got, we've got daily email that goes out with number of shots , you know, from the last 24 hours and number of courses. Yeah. 37,301 courses.

Speaker 1:

Are you always adding new courses then?

Speaker 2:

Um, to be honest, there , there's a little bit of an unknown, how many courses there are in the world? Um, there's a about , I would suggest about 38,000 , um, that includes your Parsi courses. Um, so we, you know, we're maybe a few short in places, but probably not North America, not Europe. And we're potentially short of a few courses in South America and Africa and Asia, but we've been working quite hard on mapping China and Japan lately CISO . So it goes up and it goes up a little bit, but you know, and the other thing is obviously there's new courses to open now. And again,

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was, it's not as many , like it's not, that's more about just getting all the courses that people play. Right.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's always evolving, right. That's the thing.

Speaker 1:

Cause like you're able to get the data. So someone says, Hey, you guys don't have XYZ course and whatever. You're like, okay, cool. We'll go by the aerial map of it. Right. From a , I mean , you're telling me that like the satellite, you get satellite imagery right. Within a couple of days , uh, you know, of a recent satellite imagery and then you guys can map it all out. Right? Yeah, exactly. That's crazy. It's nuts. So that's why I feel like they have something really special. Cause you know, you can go buy a $500 Garvin watch and yeah, it's fancy. Yeah . It's a Carmen , but it's not like Garmin owns that data. It's owned by, what's the name of the company that owns all that data.

Speaker 2:

And you remember? No, no, I can't remember. No , mainly because we don't use them. It's not an issue anymore.

Speaker 1:

So , um, when did, so V2 came out at 18 and that really kind of was like your , what you really wanted to do. Right. Like they were like, okay, cool. Now we have , uh , you know, cause there was no, wait a minute. The first version. Wasn't a watch though. Right? So it was, it worked off an app, correct?

Speaker 2:

No, it wasn't a watch. It just didn't ever screen. So there were no, there were no distances. It was just for performance tracking.

Speaker 1:

Oh I see.

Speaker 2:

V to V yeah. Fi two brought in the screen with the distances. So all of a sudden, you know, you're tapping into this watch market, you know,

Speaker 1:

And that was, and this screen was like black and white though. Right? Like it was like, that's okay. Cause it's an iteration, it's a new version. Right. And it was kind of big, I think a lot of people like, we're not like that was one of the complaints that people said. It was just big. Right. I remember some people told me that

Speaker 2:

It , it, it was, you know, it was beg

Speaker 1:

Her , I guess you could say, well,

Speaker 2:

I mean, the problem is, is because, you know, to fit the performance tracking technology. And at that time we needed a really big battery to make it really work. And so therefore you ended up with slightly bigger watch now in a bizarre, it was bigger than the competition of that team. But there's been a train than golf watches recently to go rain screen and be bigger anyway. Yeah . Because Apple made a big phone. So it's, it's a bit different, but yeah, it was, it was, it was Burghardt but as you say, it was an iteration to pro to get to finish.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's like, okay, cool. We have another product and now we're going to make another iteration of the product, which is even better. So then V3 comes out and I was like, when I saw Vitria I was like, Oh crap. So B3 has the color screen. Right. It looks like an Apple watch. I, I saw, I was like , it was an Apple watch, but it's a golf watch. Like it's sick. And it came in a lot of colors too. Right? Like human , like five pounds .

Speaker 2:

It came in five we've since dropped Parkville . Was that why was popular ? Um, well, yeah , it's sold out. It was the least popular, I would say. Um, why do you need a million skews, less skews? Um , a little bit less complication, but at the end of the day, when we, when we were sold out of V3, I mean, Craig got people are buying purple every everywhere they could because you guys saw how fast. Yeah. So we launched that on the 6th of July. I knew we had stopped problems about the morning of the seventh. We thought we had enough stock forecasting wise for about six months. It lasted about three weeks. Um, but obviously one of the other issues was it, you know, with COVID all of the supply chains were knackered. So it was like, okay, what, what can we build in time for holiday season? We built units by the time we'd started manufacturing and we sold them to retail everywhere. We were, we were sold out on the website.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. You only had so many on the website. Right. And everything else, retail, because you have all those agreements in place.

Speaker 2:

Um, and then that got us through this year and then we've, we've refined our , um , manufacturing. So we're pretty good now. Um, and that's allowed us to do some things that we wanted to do, like open up different fulfillment centers in Canada and Europe. Um, just because we've got the stock,

Speaker 1:

You guys were just not expecting to sell out that pass right at all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, yeah. I , I, we , we didn't and I think

Speaker 1:

Good problem to have, but it's not once you have it. Cause you're like, how the hell are we gonna get more watches ?

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, exactly. And it was tight, obviously a bit in the UK where we weren't able to play golf up until the start of July. And all of a sudden, everybody wanted to play golf courses were full everywhere. Um, and it just went crazy. And uh, you know, I , I would say it , if we had triple the amount of salt, we would have sold it, you know, and, and, and we, we literally didn't Mark it either. We , we did our survey , we did our press release stuff to say that we've launched the product and that was it. So absolutely nuts . Um , so then

Speaker 1:

When did your rangefinder come out?

Speaker 2:

So we launched the range finder , um, in North America at the PJ short sort . So January end of January this year. Oh, this year. Yeah . We launched it in Europe, in October for holiday season last year, what happened and not quite, but nearly

Speaker 1:

It makes the range finder better than all the other range markers out there.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think w w I mean, we , we, so we took 18 months to develop a range finder . Um, and, and when we started at that 18 months, we were looking at the market and you're going, okay, it's pretty expensive. Um, so we wanted to bring something out at the sort of $200 price point. Now in that 18 months, there'll be quite a lot of cheap lasers that are no felling , that price point, maybe one 50 to 200 bucks. Um , but we felt with our brand, that $200 should be where we are at. We're really comfortable, the products, you know , all the features you would actually

Speaker 1:

Start up and you're not just buying the cheap knockoff, one up from China. That's like failing to pay like 30 bucks a unit for, you know what I mean? Like, like there's like a million people that have that range finder and that raid pack of socks is telling you guys. And like, there's probably at least five brands that are like selling that rangefinder now, because it's just like talking to somebody who was like the one who was that I think I was talking to a precision pro. And I think like, literally they're like the V one of their range finder like five years ago is , is that range from like , you're essentially, you know, they're like, yeah, someone just docked off our original version and is reselling it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, it's so, so, you know, we, we had to go and , um, test that, make sure that it's where we want it to be. It's got feature set that, you know, rivals lasers are double the price. Um, and again, you know, w w we've been pretty pleased with it. I was gone , um, you know, two distinct colors, pretty nice ship, you know, it's a nice product to hold. Um, and yeah. And , uh , and it , and what it's done is it's just helped us expand our brand a little bit as well at the same time. Cause there's, there's distinct differences between the UK market and the U S market. So in the UK, if you were to take avid golfers, however you want to define that , uh, I would say 60% are watch users, maybe 15% use lasers. And then the rest use a combination of apps and handhelds , but mostly handheld, whereas in the U S market, it's almost flipped. So you'd have about probably 50, 60% use lasers, maybe 20% use Watchers and the rest use handhelds and apps, but the watches are , they are growing the fastest. Yeah , I

Speaker 1:

Think because nobody wants to carry anything.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's really difficult to lose a watch when it's on your wrist. And it's really, you know, the , the biggest thing we hear against watches, I don't want to wear some home arrest. Okay. I like , well, you know, V3 weighs 42 grams. No , which is nothing. It's, it's pretty sleek. It looks good. You know, it it's tied , it doesn't flop a boat, like a watch word. That's, it's , it's small it's . So once golfers wear a watch or see somebody wearing a watch and they see that they can get instant access to distances on the rest ,

Speaker 1:

Have a look through a scope. You're like, I look at my watch and be like, okay, I'm so many yards out. Right. And then there's a map there . You're like, okay, I see what's going on. You know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, using a laser to scalp.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Because you always miss the target. I think never works, man. Like, it's , it's close. You're like, okay, I guess it's like a hundred and X yards .

Speaker 2:

It's not, it's, it's not the simplest thing to use. And we sell them and ours is very good, but you know, you still it's , it's a scale. Okay. You know, I'm part of the reasons that scale, because you see people lasering from 320 yards and you're like, look, you know, where are you going to hit that distance ? So, I mean, the way I know work, my golf, I wear the watch. I enjoy the watch and anything within about 150 yards or a part three I'll laser it.

Speaker 1:

So you feel like that's the, like that in the United States now is starting to take shape, you know, that, and that all call that

Speaker 2:

I th I think what we'll find in probably the next two or three years is the watches will probably be the same as lasers.

Speaker 1:

Here's the thing, too. What I find interesting is like, I didn't really think about this between the watch and the laser is that like, you know , it's not easy, it's easy to make a laser. Right. Obviously just buy the cheaper version. And so for more , um, they come into that market as like a new brand, but if you're going to be coming in, like you can't just make a watch. Right. I mean , I guess, and then, but then you have to invest somehow money into the back end of the watch, meaning the data. Right. And no one's going to go spend a bunch of money on data.

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, to , to make a standalone GPS watch compared to laser you're right, you , you can kind of get knockoff lasers that you could get somebody on the market yourself, but with a watch you're you need the course mapping data. Now we're going to get that

Speaker 1:

Buy a company, you got a licensing agreement. It's that costs you a lot of freaking money.

Speaker 2:

You need to have , um, you know, there's certain things. So , you know, with the watch, you , you need to pass all the tests. Cause you're strapping some into your body. You've got, you've got battery in there and you know, it needs to be of a quality that nothing happens to it. But also, you know, you've got straps. The strap has to be a Seren material because these things have to be pretty hard waiting. You know, they go through quite a lot of force on the, on the, on the , on your wrist . Um, and again, you know, your vole was got this thing of people wanting, well, they want exact Destin says, you know, same as Iris . So we need to add in the extra bunker. So it's, you know, there's, there's a lot more maintenance around the watch as a product from a company standpoint. Um , whereas the lasers, you know, we've, we've sold a lot of lasers and we don't really hear from the users. They're all for using the product enjoying, you know , they don't really need to get in touch with us.

Speaker 1:

So I think it's, I think it's fascinating to be honest , um, because I feel like there's a barrier to entry and if you don't have the wherewithal to, you know, figure that out and do it then it's, I don't know. I think it's a special really to take because a lot of people I'm seeing are buying it , the cheap knockoff stuff on Ali-Baba and painting a different color and then selling it for 200 bucks. And you guys, when you guys did yours, you are a well respected company and you actually made a product that's way better than that. Like, wait, it's not even close to that at the same price point. So it's a no brainer to use that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly. I , I , you know, that's, that's a lot of the stuff that we've learned in developing the Watchers and developing the lasers, making sure that, you know, we want golfers to trust the short Scott brand to understand that we, we built quality products to also understand that, you know, you're not going to pay 500 bucks for one of our products. We don't, we don't expect you or need you to pay that .

Speaker 1:

I think people are going to still buy the $500 range finders.

Speaker 2:

I dunno. I, I, I would hope not , but I, I would also hope they don't buy the a hundred dollars ones that don't, that don't work. So, so, eh , you know , something that we spend a lot of time trying to inform the consumer, informed the golfer about that , you know, there's choice here and we're part of that choice, and this is why we're a good choice and make sure that, you know, all our products are up to the quality that we expect, you know? And at the end of the day, if I wasn't prepared to use it, then I'm definitely not going to be selling it.

Speaker 1:

The quality has to be there. Right. Or it's pointless. Like don't absolutely . And golfers are not stupid.

Speaker 2:

No. And nor should they be, you know, it's, you know, we talk about even, even at $200, it's so of a price point that it's a considered decision. No, no, you're not. You're not just, it's not, it's not like a , I don't know . I pocket golf balls for 10 bucks. You're like, I'll try these today, NFL, like them I'll buy more, you know, it's a $200 product that you're going to expect to use for significant period of time on for it to work as advertised onto a quality you expect.

Speaker 1:

So you guys have other stuff in the works right now, like before, or like,

Speaker 2:

Eh , there's no V4. Um, there there's, there's , uh , an exclusive, there won't be a V4. There may be a V something else, or we're going to jump a number, I think. Um , but no, we're not. So we're not going to be bringing any watches next year. We've got some other things in the works. You'll probably see them at the PGA show next year. Um, and , and really that's for us, that's casting our net, but you know , w our performance tracking, we've nearly done a hundred million. Now , we we've got, we want to get some more products that give golfers different ways of collecting data. Probably the most I'll say on that.

Speaker 1:

Um, it sounds like you guys, I mean, you guys already call it two new products in a year. Right. So it's like, we can't keep up. It's like, you're kind of regrouping implement something new next year, but this year is more of a different type of year. Right. It's developing your

Speaker 2:

Yeah. W so we'll, we'll , uh, yeah, correct. I mean, we, we released the two products last year. Um, we'll go, we'll go. What can I kind of fall into a cycle where we'll least something every year from next year, probably in January time for ahead of the new season. Um, and, and yeah, it'll become clearer, I think next year where we're going.

Speaker 1:

Um, so are you excited now that you start playing Paul soon? Are you guys still on lockdown ?

Speaker 2:

No. So , um, we're , we're doing pretty well and vaccinations here , um, and we're starting to open up, so we had retail open up last , uh , on Monday actually of this week. Um, so we've been back playing golf for four weeks, maybe five weeks. Um, so it's gradually opening off par . I kind of hope that that's us done, you know, there's, there's no, there's nothing else coming on the horizon lockdown wise . Um, I think part of that's due to the fact that, you know, similar to the U S vaccination rates are pretty good and that certainly have an effect. Um, but , uh, obviously Europe is struggling at the moment. Really ? I didn't know that mainland Europe is having a tough time.

Speaker 1:

We know that all we hear about here is India right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well , yeah. I mean, India's, India's in a really bad way. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And they're totally downplaying. Yeah . I think the government actually talked , somebody on my team is in India and he's like, yeah, they're like saying, Oh, it's 200 people a day. He's like, there's no way. Dude was like, like 10 times in and out , you know, that's scary. Cause that's a big country. And then I talked to somebody last night and they're in Thailand. And they were saying like, cause they said , Oh, Thailand is going back to then I asked them , I asked them, they're like, no, it's not. They're like the are bad. Here is like 200 cases in one city, you know? But like, so

Speaker 2:

I mean, to be honest, the, the, a lot of the Asian countries have had SARS and bird flu, various things over the last 15 years and are pretty good at locking quickly and tracing contacts. And that's something that when it hit our shores, you know, we're just not very good at, we don't, we don't accept that type of lockdown or what , what we need to do. Um, and also, you know, the sort of tracing contacts, we're less likely to give contacts or information. And obviously it has a bit of an effect, but we're over in Asia say, you know, fast, hard lockdowns and they think they can stop it at 200 cases, you know, in a SETI

Speaker 1:

Either.

Speaker 2:

No. And , and to be honest, Australia's followed that method in Australia has been very successful at it.

Speaker 1:

Leave Australia. Like I was talking to my friend who's in Australia yesterday. Well, I mean, back and forth. And I was like, I'm like waiting to come visit me. Cause he was just come out last year. And he goes, well, right now, if we leave Australia, we're at the beach, we're on lockdown. Like we have to be at a hotel when you get back for two weeks. I'm like, ah ,

Speaker 2:

So , so that's the same as Scotland or snow. If you ferment international travel, you're staying in a hotel for 10 days. So, but they expect that to be lifted probably next month. I might travel out to the U S in sort of October time to do some , uh, some media activity. And then obviously we're aiming to be at the PGA show next year. So it's been a bit weird, all of that, you know?

Speaker 1:

Um, I know hopefully everything is back to normal soon, all tournaments. We'll actually add it now, you know, I'm like, well , it's only a couple people there, but at least somebody.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, that that's quite weird soccer over here starting to get some funds return, you know, small quantities, but they are returning , um , obviously watching some of the NFL season, they had some funds there. Um, so it's just,

Speaker 1:

It's going to be slow.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah. And you know, hospitality over here has been decimated. The tourism industry has been decimated, you know , really fortunate to be involved in golf, which is, you know,

Speaker 1:

Literally the only sport that was able to be played for a year

Speaker 2:

Done really well. You know, memberships, our membership numbers are off the charts. There's waiting lists, you know, T teams are pre booked and, and , uh, yeah. You know, it's , it's, it's been really fortunate that it hasn't affected golf. Like it's affected other segments and industries.

Speaker 1:

I agree. Well, I just really appreciate all the help you've given us over the last couple of years and our PR our friendship. Um , and I look forward to doing more stuff with you guys. I, I guess he's one of my buddies. I was like, emailed them. I was like, Hey, you'll be on my show. Um, but you guys need to check out shot scope. Like they make some really cool stuff. And the price points like affordable. It's not like out , you have to get the watch. The watch is awesome. Like for reals I, and the shot in the, in the light rate defined , or actually we're willing to review them. I haven't reviewed it yet . I can't give you my opinion, but I'm assuming it's probably be awesome. So , um, I suppose they thank you. Where can they find you? Like, where's the best place to find shots,

Speaker 3:

Short scope.com is the simplest way to go and find us obviously , um, we've got stock in the U S we shepherd Chicago, but we're also an Amazon. Um, we're in quite a few of the big retailers and I have as well. So , um, yeah, I, well , I would say, what should I try and say every time we're on a podcast or something, you know, if you have a question, regardless of whether it's about short score or rangefinders or watches, whatever it may be, just send our guys and email support, support that short scope.com more than happy to hand out advice, give any feedback , um, answer questions. You know, I know with the performance tracking, there's always a few questions, but , uh, trust me, we've, we've answered everything before, so happy to do so.

Speaker 1:

And I'm also going to give everybody your cell number so that they want less,

Speaker 3:

And we can do that. It's switched off in the U S States

Speaker 1:

It's area code five, five moms kidding out .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Um , but no, no, thanks for having me on and what we'll do. We'll get Jen on at some point that will be her worst nightmare. Nightmare . Yeah , yeah , yeah. I think so. So, well ,

Speaker 1:

I should like email her and CCU and be like, so Gavin says, do you want to be on my podcast? So let's set this up and then like have her free .

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Do that. Do that, that that's , uh , that's worth a joke.

Speaker 1:

It's a worst nightmare. Well, she is on the website. So, I mean, I say like she's a movie star on shot's coast website.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And , and sh you know, we'll get her on and we'll talk a little bit about data and things and how golfers can , uh, yeah .

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Data data is key, man. They did you want to know the truth about something? Look at the data. That's, that's jumbo.

Speaker 3:

We we've got it all in front of us. So we'll get Jen on to talk through some of the data that's today .

Speaker 1:

That'd be cool. Yeah . What we should do is like, have the shot scope watch up and then show people like, what does this data actually means? And, you know, like kind of that kind of thing, because

Speaker 3:

No , on one of my screens, I've got up in front of me, so I can tell you are 10 handicappers hit 49%

Speaker 2:

Of fairways miss 27 life, 24%. Right. You know, she can come on and tell you everything you want to know about data. Um, give everybody, I mean, even if you get some questions as well, she can answer it .

Speaker 1:

It also shows you like, even though you're like, it shows you what you need to accomplish to be that kind of player, right? Like, how do I become a better , how do I do this? You know , how do I come up ? X handicap? Well, the people that are actually handicap do this. So this is what you should probably work on. Are these areas of your game?

Speaker 2:

Well, there's, there's a couple of things. I mean, to give you an idea what I'm saying, you know , okay. I play with scratch. So what do you think average proximity to the hole as far a scratch hand, amateur golfer from 75 to 125 yards

Speaker 1:

In the hole. So probably

Speaker 2:

Approximately 10 feet ,

Speaker 1:

Uh , five feet, 39, really? I had not that far away.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes if you use data to go I've, I feel like I've had a bad shot. There actually, I've not had a bad shot, you know, set expectations, like real expectations. Yeah. Under understand where messages are going to go. And , and obviously this is generalized across all of our database, but it's still very good insights. And then golfers can come on track, track themselves and then compare themselves against their peers to understand where they need to improve to , to really lower their score.

Speaker 1:

That's crazy. That's really cool.

Speaker 2:

But we'll set Jen up to come on and do that.

Speaker 1:

Let's do it. You mean Jen ? And I'll be fun. I think it'd be fun. We should definitely like, I did that with a rap Soto and I had art on the show and art like pulled up his rap soda. We put on the screen and we went through every single screen on the rap Soto . But he was like showing video, like with him using it at his house, in his basement, at the golf course, like he explained it , like, that's one of my, probably one of my best videos on YouTube. Like I get so many views on that thing. Cause it's just like, it's just wrong. Right. It's like, dude, there's no smoking mirrors here. Here's this , you know, we're, we're normal people and here's the data, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah . Yeah. We can say that with my data. I got no issues.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. That's cool. Awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show. I know you're busy. Do you have other podcasts ? Because they're eight hours ahead of me. So it's like five or something, but I will. I sent you a package, like I said, so checking the mail if I get a couple of weeks and uh, we'll talk over email. Sounds good. All right. My friend , you take care. Bye.