We made it to Episode 38 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my friend Tom Cox, the Founder and CEO of Golfballs.com.
In 1995, an idea and hobby became the first e-commerce business in Louisiana. Since that time, the company has transitioned over the years into one of the leading golf Internet retailers on the web - with a strong focus on customized products. We no longer carry used golf balls but instead now offer a complete selection of new golf balls, caps, shoes, bags, clubs and more from golf's top manufacturers. Golfballs.com offers a full selection of golf equipment across the United States and worldwide direct from our office in Lafayette, Louisiana.
We made it to Episode 38 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my friend Tom Cox, the Founder and CEO of Golfballs.com.
In 1995, an idea and hobby became the first e-commerce business in Louisiana. Since that time, the company has transitioned over the years into one of the leading golf Internet retailers on the web - with a strong focus on customized products. We no longer carry used golf balls but instead now offer a complete selection of new golf balls, caps, shoes, bags, clubs and more from golf's top manufacturers. Golfballs.com offers a full selection of golf equipment across the United States and worldwide direct from our office in Lafayette, Louisiana.
Today, we play a golf. Let me show you how we do it in the pros. Welcome to behind the golf grand podcast. I've never missed with the seven nine a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range from pro talk. You should learn something each and every single round you play to fun from on and off the green. Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money. Just let me put the ball in the hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast. With Paul libertory behind the golf brand podcast is sponsored by OnPoint. The revolutionary three-dimensional dome golf ball. Marker on point provides a layman recognition as small as a degree of inaccuracy from the planned course of the putt face angle endorsed by Jim Furich us open champion and 17 time PGA tour winner on point alignment technology has been proven to increase putting performance and help lower your score. Visit OnPoint golf dot U S, and be sure to use code[inaudible] for a 10% discount on point, make more putts
Speaker 2:What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority. Welcome to behind the golf brand podcast. Welcome to episode 38 38. I just read it off the screen. So I have it right this week. This week I have a legend, another legend in the business of e-comm and golf. I have Tom Cox, the CEO and founder of golf balls.com. That's right, right now, not right, except for the legend part. I'm a legend in my own mind. I mean, first of all, you have the best you are out of like all time. And he really is a legend. I look up to like, there's certain people I look up in this industry and he's one of them. This is freaking cool. You guys like his story and how he grew his brand. And like, he was one of the first, one of the first brands and online golf retail, like really? So I'm super excited to hear about like how he did it and his story. If you guys don't know about golf balls ICOM is they pretty much are the leader in used balls, custom balls, anything to do with balls, even clean equipment. I learned that today. I didn't even know that. So it's really cool to have on the show. I'm super excited and to learn more from this amazing watch entrepreneur. So welcome to the show. Awesome to be here. Thank you. So let me ask you this, where are you at right now? I'm in my, uh, in my office in Lafayette, Louisiana, Lafayette, Louisiana. I have a window from my office, but unfortunately it goes into the retail store. I mean, unfortunately, or fortunately, and I, and I see no sunlight, so I've kind of got a dark office, but you know, that's how it goes. Sometimes that's all right. I have a dark office. I like working in the dark. I have a car. I like, my paralegal will come in. She's like, why it's so dark? And I'm like, cause it feels good. My eyes, people are not bugging me. They don't think I'm here. Like you don't really work that well, but so I don't have your listing to show, but usually the first question I always ask is what's your first golf memory,
Speaker 3:Probably playing golf with my, with my mother's father in green Cove Springs or to there was a little nine hole course. And he walked and played every day. So my first experience was, was as a, as a little guy walking, walking a nine hole course with them and playing and playing with him when we would go visit, visit in the summertime. So what year was that? I guess what time? And I was probably seven or eight or so when w when I, when I did that, so we could, we could do some math on that problem.
Speaker 2:I think we're the same age man, or close early seventies, Nancy, like more distinguished he is and stuff. And he's a little bit older than me, man.
Speaker 3:I'm 53.
Speaker 2:I'm 10 years younger. I feel better now. And 10 years from now, I'll be like golf balls.com. It'll be golf. Paul's dot com. So what made you like, so, okay, let me ask you this. So some people I have on the show, they, you know, played high school golf to play college golf, they play tour stuff. That's kind of how they got into it. So how did you get into golf?
Speaker 3:So, uh, when I was, uh, while I was in college about halfway through a friend of mine was working at a local country club here in town and he was moving out of town and he said, Hey, they need somebody would you like to gig? And so I was like at the age, or, uh, how old was I at the time? 18. So you went to LSU at 19. So I went to, I went to LSU for a couple of years at an awful lot of fun. And then I transferred to, uh, to, to UL, uh, here in Lafayette and I, and I that's where I graduated from. But at some point on, on, in that timeframe, I, uh, I think this was, uh, 1990. This was 88, I think. Uh, I started in the golf business as, as an assistant to the administrative office of a country club. So that's kind of it. So I didn't, I wasn't on the golf side of it, the golf operations side. And then as, as when I graduated, I had an opportunity to became assistant general manager, uh, shortly at the same place at the same place. Yep. And those are, what was your degree in? Well, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, like a lawyer, like you ball.
Speaker 2:I want it to be like, yeah, let's trade.
Speaker 3:I, I created that. Uh, but I kind of, and so I was like, this was the Alsace I was studied, but they also, and then the, the club changed payments, a Japanese company bought it and it kind of created some new opportunities for me. That's cool. All the while that I was at the country club, you know, country club members are, are full of entrepreneurs and business owners, like, so, so like I'm interacting with these guys and I'm getting inspired by their stories every day. Right. And so, so I kind of the, the, I don't, I think you kind of have, have it, or don't have it, the entrepreneur can't force it on somebody. Yeah. You have it, or you don't have, and I didn't have it. My, my, my dad worked for the government. His dad worked for the government, so I was destined to work for the government until my entrepreneur gene activated. Yeah. And then kind of being exposed to these entrepreneurs at the country club. I activated my gene, uh, entrepreneur, gene, and I want, Ooh, this is pretty cool. I'm going to stay, I'm going to stay in business for awhile. Um, but then, but then I was just always thinking about business ideas from, uh, from that, from that point forward. So I, I would credit it in the early days, just to kind of the inspiration of, of being around successful business, business owners and entrepreneurs, uh, in that environment.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. Cause I know you were talking to me before, like, like your dad was in the FBI, everybody, so don't mess with him, but uh, his dad was in the FBI. Right. So, you know, it's, it's like, even though your dad wasn't an entrepreneur, right. Like you were, you weren't growing up in that environment. Right. I would assume not. But then by being exposed by entrepreneurs that like clicked, right? Like that part of your brain was like, Oh, I mean, once you, once that happens, there's no stopping it. Like,
Speaker 3:No, I've pretty much been, uh, a lifelong entrepreneur since, uh, since that point in time.
Speaker 2:So then how long did you stay at the country club
Speaker 3:Until 98? Maybe. So I was, I was called manager there. And at the same time for a period of time, also a director of back then it was a web.com tour and a Nike tour. And so I kind of had, had a lot of different pieces, a lot of experience in a lot of different segments of the golf business, uh, before starting golf balls.com. And so actually we started golf balls.com. I say we, because couple founders at the time, people that were founders of the company and also, uh, work with me at the time was a web developer that helped me develop the website for the country club and my boss at the time who was the, who owned the management company that oversaw the country club. So that was, uh, and so in 95 it was kind of a part-time test. It was like a hobby, right? Like, okay, I'm exposed to this bit. The internet came along. Then I said, Ooh, I I've been, I studied it. I, to me, it was clear as day plain. It was crystal clear that every year for, for the next 50 years, that more and more transactions were going to move online. Crystal clear. It was just, it was just obvious. And so I said, what do I know? What, what can I, what are my skills? What are my industry skills? I like computers, I know golf, I know the golf business. And so in 95 to two events came together in one week that gave, that gave me the, uh, th the kind of bra led me to golf balls.com. We were interviewing some new skull, all, uh, uh, the guys that dive in the pond for the country club. Uh, and so, so we were negotiating a contract with them, would pull the balls out of the club. And I was meeting with a web developer out of the ponds. And I was meeting with a web developer to develop a website for the country club, because, because, uh, we did it this
Speaker 2:Time. If people were doing that, like you had to have
Speaker 3:That, it was a brochure at the time,
Speaker 2:It was a really bad, ugly,
Speaker 3:Very nice country club. And we did wedding receptions and that sort of stuff. And so, so at that time, we, and that same week, it kind of dawned on me. What if, what if, what if I work with the developer to build a website, to sell, use golf balls and, and work with the used golf, golf ball, uh, divers to do fulfillment for the used golf balls that we, that we saw on the website. And so within, within this was like, uh, this was like October, November of 95. And in late November, early December 95, we started, we started the business and then launched it in February of 96. And so that, that, that's kind of how we got started. Uh, it's, it's worth noting now that we have been out of the youth ball business for that, that, that that's a separate podcast and a separate story, but we've been out of the youth, the golf ball business since about, since about 2000, we kind of know the joke. Yeah. I never knew that. I still have people that I run into that associated, right. That have been friends of mine for years that say, Hey, how's that used ball this going, like, just, just because the 20 years ago we got out of the 20 years, we got out 20 years ago. So, yeah. That's a pretty big question. Why? Well, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's easy to, uh, it's, it's where we sit
Speaker 2:Probably really hard, honestly. I bet it's really hard. Cause he gets a lot of juggling,
Speaker 3:Right? It was, uh, we, we like to sell things that other people don't do well, uh, and that we have a unique, competitive, competitive advantage. Right, right. Now our customization products suit suit that, uh, because we do it very well. We do it in some ways that other people don't do it back then you couldn't just go into a Walmart or you couldn't go into a sporting goods store or a or a, and buy used golf balls the way you want it to be way you want it. Like, so we started sorting and grading them, selling them online exactly. At a price point that appealed to customers. What happened is as, as we kind of moved from, from like 95 to 2000, uh, eBay was started and started, started the guys that were diving in the ponds that were fulfilling our orders or were selling as balls to, to do our fulfillment. We're taking their best products and selling them directly. So you're getting the junk. So that's essentially, that's what happened, right. If these guys could make more money selling direct, I they're doing the work it's, it's a, we, we S we said, okay, what can we do? That's different that will provide a system stainable competitive advantage. And, and we felt like, uh, product customization, ball customization, and other types of customization was something that w it was very, very, really personalized golf balls, corporate logo, golf balls, kind of early on in that, in that, uh, uh, the not, it was not well adopted, but it was clear that it was going to grow. It was going to continue to grow people like personalized stuff, right. People like in the, in the internet uniquely suited to deliver personalized products for, for, for customers and golfers. So we kind of pivoted in that 2000 to 2002 timeframe, smarter to completely get out of the, the, uh, the usable business and focus on, on, uh, customized and personalized golf products.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I had no idea. So then, okay, so then you guys build the website, right?[inaudible] and what initially to outsell use balls, or was it all kinds of
Speaker 3:Use golf balls? Any, any way you want, you could buy like new, uh, back then, it would have been a tide was professionals or tour Baladez, or you could buy second grade at a less, in a lower price or grade three or grade B or whatever we call it back then, the way you want, or you could buy mixed balls and we would sell it. We would sell exactly the ball you wanted. Exactly. The grades you wanted, depending on the price point, the price point that you wanted to pay. And that was the one of the site that was version one. So how long have you wanted the site last? What's that? How long
Speaker 2:Have you, it was called golf ball warehouse or
Speaker 3:Golf ball warehouse yet. So,
Speaker 2:So then golf balls at Conde even like exist, right? Like no, even own the domain domains, like super strong, man,
Speaker 3:If you look at that, I'll tell you a story on that one too, when, when we, when we get there. But so, so, uh, we, we just focused on used golf balls. We built a website in 95, started the business in 95, launched it in early, early 96. And then year one, we did$17,000 in sales. So I don't know, like 96, it was kind of a, it was kind of a hobby it's like at 17,000 and sale.
Speaker 2:It's extra money, but you're like, it probably costs you that much
Speaker 3:To build that kind of tough to call it a business. It's a hobby, right. It's a hobby. Uh, and then in year two, 70,000 in business in year three, which would have been 98, we did a 200,000 in business. And then, uh, 99, we, we, uh, we hit the million dollar Mark. And that was kind of where, where, uh, right in that timeframe, I said, I better stop these other, like, I, I still have a full-time job. And I describe it. I described golf balls.com as a hobby gone awry, uh, because it was, it was kind of a until it, until it takes up so much of your time that it, that it becomes that it just like, you're either doing your full-time your full-time job. Plus that takes, takes up an entire, you know, all of your free time in a week. And at that point, I said, okay, I've got it. I've either got to do it or not do it, sell it, or, or, or, or focused on it to get it right. It was, that was when I transitioned out of my, my club management business called management,
Speaker 2:Scary, still too. Right. Cause you're like, you have a guarantee and now it's like, okay, well, we're making good money. It's working, but still at the risk right now, that's a real risk. Because before
Speaker 3:That, I, that I do and trusted said, said, you've got a great job at this country club. You've got a great opportunity with it.
Speaker 2:You're going to get a pension. You're going to get a gold watch and get a years. You got guaranteed. You don't have to work nine to five. It's great.
Speaker 3:But, but my, uh, my entrepreneur gene had already been activated and there was no turning back.
Speaker 2:People always ask me, they're like, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you do it. I'm like, I don't know either, honestly, like I like doing it. It's fun. Like, that's, that's it.
Speaker 3:And that's my hobby. You have to be excited about it. And now 25 years later, I'm still really excited about what we do.
Speaker 2:You know what it is? I think, I think it's once other, it becomes a real job. That's when it stops being fun. But when you're actually growing something, it's not a job. It's like what you want to do. Right. So it's almost like people ask you, like when they go, when did I stop flying? And I'm like, want to quit being fun. That's when I stopped flying, honestly, that's the best way I can describe it. It could being fun and we'll quit being fun. I don't want to do it anymore. You know? Like, so yeah. I like what I do, but I also understand what you're saying too, because it's like, you know, with what, what I've done over the last couple of years, it's like, that's what it was a hobby that's gone haywire, which is a good thing. And I love it. I'm like, Holy crap, I, I enjoy it, but it's just it's. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's some, at some point that hobby gets to become, that gets to become your focus. Right. Instead of split focus,
Speaker 2:It's just so much fun. I don't know, like it's golf. Like, I don't know. It's a fun, I really like about I do here is that I talk so many entrepreneurs and like brands and like hear these stories and how they it's just so fascinating because it's like, there's always a thread, right. That goes through it. And it's always the same thread. It's just a different way of going down that thread. So then what happens? You went full time. Is that when you decide to change the name or no,
Speaker 3:Uh, around we, we raised some capital, uh, and we did so@thesametimethatwepurchasedthedomaingolfballs.com and we're going to reincorporate the businesses go start calming. And that was, uh, and we bought the domain from a con from a Canadian, somebody in Canada that had it, uh, for$9,500. How's that that's a lot of money back
Speaker 2:Then, too, for domains
Speaker 3:In 98. You didn't know if a domain was going to be valuable, no idea. People were still, you know, young[inaudible], is it going to be a, you know what, what's the, what's what, which paradigm is going to win. So it's going to be a mall,
Speaker 2:Right. Malls still existed until about 2002, right? 2001. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like it was th there were, there were 10 different competing scenarios that could have, uh, that could have won the day. And the one that won was a strong, strong domain. It's easy to remember, uh, will help you build a business, write a short one 98. We weren't, we weren't sure that, uh, here I'll give you a funny story about it. And in 99 and 90, in 2000 after we raised some, some money, uh, the front page of our local newspaper had golf balls.com hits an ACE or something like that, not golf balls.com, golf ball.com. And it, at that point, we said, Ooh, maybe we should get golf ball, backup cop too. So set up
Speaker 2:Really?
Speaker 3:Because if you hear one, you type the other, like if you have, if you have a business name that they kind of easily, you know, somebody hears one thing and they type another, they hear one thing and type another, you really need to have all different permutations of it. Other, otherwise they're going to, you're going to send your traffic to somebody else's website,
Speaker 2:Fricking road. I own golfers authority.com. Right. I did not buy golfers authority, golfer, authority.com, and some German dude bought it and like build a golf website and was like, and I, I was like, and that was actually flattering to me. Right. Cause I was like, Oh, somebody copied me. Nice. Like, and I'm
Speaker 3:Actually getting,
Speaker 2:And then I was like, Oh, that prick, he took my frigging logo and he took my graphics. I'm going to kick his. And that's like, I. So then I did a nice one after him, like full bore. And I like, that was our, I said the lawyer, that's the lawyer part of me now. So then I was like, all right, jerk and data DMC take down. And then I act up as traffic and all this crap. And then he like apologized and I was like, better get it back off, bro. I'm like, you've copyright infringement, trademark infringement. Like all this
Speaker 3:Germany, we're going to do
Speaker 2:Like, hi, my name is, you know, Johann, welcome to golfers adore golfer authority.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Did he offer to sell it back to you before, before all that happened?
Speaker 2:No, that's all right. Whatever I probably should have. And then I think after that I bought.net. Like Emma was going to write.net. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We do. We have that. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's like, we're going to write that.
Speaker 3:Nobody's going to type that. Uh, but I, I would, I would go after that other domain. I get it. Well, I will at some,
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know, you gotta be making enough money at it to make it worth your time. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think I didn't take my truck golfers authority. I'm going to cut number one. So it's like
Speaker 3:The right time to do it's now it's not in 10 years
Speaker 2:For sure. True. That's very true. Oh, and I, yeah, I gotta think about this. I shouldn't tell that story. Now. I have one more thing I got to figure out. Okay.
Speaker 3:One more thing on your list of a million things.
Speaker 2:So, okay. So you got golf since you buy golf ball.com, then I was going to buy it right now.
Speaker 3:It was about$50,000 in a couple of years, it got off, they got a lot more expensive and that domain
Speaker 2:Too. So I mean, but
Speaker 3:The thing is though, we can't really do anything about it, except redirect it to
Speaker 2:Three Oh one, redirect,
Speaker 3:You just have to redirect it. And that's okay. It's it's worth, I mean, it's, it's probably worth a lot of money, but it's more 50 grand now that domain, but we couldn't,
Speaker 2:What am I like? What am I buy? I'll buy it off you right now for 50 grand deal.
Speaker 3:Except as long as you agree not to use it. And then I'll you to redirect it. I'll get a, I'll get a 99 year lease on a, on our water redirect to,
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Can you imagine when it's money you could make on that? They do that in Arizona on land. They do nine, nine year leases here, Tracy. So probably listeners out there, you can't buy golf ball.com. Sorry, but then what happened? So it's like 2000, right? So now that you quit your job and what happened next,
Speaker 3:Then we, we grew full bore, full bore. We grew from, and just raised some money. We spent too much money advertising for too little return. And, uh, and but, but we doubled the size of the business a couple of years in a row. And then the.com crash came. And, uh, I don't know if you remember when that happened, you remember the.com
Speaker 2:Crash. It was like, what year was it like that was, that,
Speaker 3:That was 2000. No, that was 2001, 2002. So right in that timeframe,
Speaker 2:It was like right around nine 11. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yep. And, um, and so all of a sudden, now our business never slowed down, but the investor community, the economy slurred the investor community sour to, to, uh, to anything with.com. And if you had.com and your name, your board was trying to get you to take the.com out of your name. Really? I'm not kidding. Like, like that was actually a discussion at one of our board meetings. Now we never did it like that. It was, it was core to what we did. It was, it was it's located. But, you know, in the.com in the, uh, in the doldrums of the.com crash, you know, the, uh, the sentiment was, was to disassociate with, with the.com. And anyway, we never did it. And we just kept growing and growing and growing and growing and growing. So, so we, we have pretty consistently grown. Now, obviously in the early years of the business, you grow at a faster percent than you do in, uh, in later years, just as, uh, like we, we were, we were doubling for awhile and then the doubling slowed to 50% growth a year. And then that's where the 25% growth a year. And then that slowed to, to kind of between 10 and 15% growth a year. Perfect.
Speaker 2:But your growth is so huge that it's like even 10 or 15, it
Speaker 3:On a dollar basis growing, you know, growing 10 or 15% now is a lot more than growing. And then doubling back then, and then 2020 has been in 2020 was an interesting year because you guys exploded. Yeah, it was, uh, it was a, so first it was scary, right? Every, it was like, wow,
Speaker 2:March the second week of March. Everyone's like, uh,
Speaker 3:And now, uh, because everything, everything just kind of stopped for awhile and then golf, you know, golfer said, this is great. And then municipalities said, let's open it back up. And then everybody opened back up and it was one of the cheap places people could go to, to relax and have fun. That was, that was, uh, COVID safe. And, and I know either, you know, the, you know, the story there, I'm sure, I'm sure your business was, uh, was a reflection reflected that as well, but it was just, it was a significant increase in an activity, uh, over the prior year. We w we were back in the 20% growth rate. So
Speaker 2:When, like last year did, was it hard to get supply though?
Speaker 3:There, there were, uh, there were inventory constraints such as balls. Like everybody couldn't get balls, inventory constraints all year. No, no question about it, even, even as we got to the end of the year, uh, and those constraints are actually still, still existing now. So it's a, uh, uh, it's difficult to get product from over more difficult to get products from overseas that affects our manufacturers. Their, I think their demand is outpacing the ability that they can produce domestically for a lot of them. And so they're there, we will probably have some type of inventory constraints or, uh, for the first half of the year. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're behind right. Six months probably of like, develop, like, cause like everything was closed. Right. I heard that, I heard that certain brands are going back to and other places where they had inventory on the shelf, but no, the stores are closed and saying, give us back our inventory. We need to sell this on our website.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, if I, if I was a brand, that's what I'd have done right. At that point, if they don't, they don't have a product. For sure. So
Speaker 2:When did you like start doing more stuff? Like when did you move away from balls? I mean, you still do balls, but when did you start
Speaker 3:Adding the time? So in 2004, we moved into our current facility, uh, which, which has a, uh, which, uh, is situated in a, in a shopping center. We said, look, as long as we're going to move in, move into this new, bigger facility that has a storefront, why don't we make a store? So when we opened the store, that kind of naturally led us to add a complete selection of product on online, the same that you'd find in any store because we're buying the inventory anyway for the retail store. So we just, we just buy a water selection. So now, so probably 2004, 2005 was when we expanded to choose quotes, golf bags, carts. I would tell you though, that our, our, our store is a very small part of our business. Uh, and custom customized product sales still represents 80% of our overall overall company business, but 80%.
Speaker 2:So you had a location in Lafayette, right. Which is like your store slash like, headquarters, right? What would you call it? And then do you have like distribution and other places?
Speaker 3:So we have, uh, we have been fortunate to two buildings came on the market adjacent to our, to ours. So we just kind of, it went on the market. Got it. It went on the market. Got it. So, so we've got, we have enough square footage. We've got about 60,000, 65,000 square feet, but right, right. Adjacent to our total near our main building. And then last year we leased a, uh, we leased a pretty cool office space in the downtown area. And we've got the, uh, the third floor of a cool old building that's been redone. And the reason we did that is, is because we to attract saw the cool kids, the software developer guys, you need to have cool digs, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They're like, Oh, here's your cubicle of your dreams. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They, they don't, they don't really want to work in a, in a, in a previous grocery store with, with offices that are without windows. Right. Like, and it turns out they have a choice they're gold collar workers. And so, so, uh, so we, we lease that space downtown to move our entire technology development operations down downtown, to be able to, to, to help us attract talent, more of the cool kids and the top talent. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of people are doing that right now too though. I mean, a lot of golf brands are, I mean, that's talked to they've, their spaces are older buildings with, uh, industrial look, which is cool. I love that. I mean, so you're saying then 80% of your, of your, of your business as a, as the customization side. Right. So is a majority of that coming from the balls.
Speaker 3:It is, yeah. Most of it's balls, but we also do a lot of accessories. We do ordered, uh, I'll split that up for you to 80% of our businesses. Customized three fourths of that is B to C golfers buying for golfers or golfers buying gifts for people. One fourth of that is corporate. So, so a quarter, a quarter of that customized businesses is, uh, people buying golf balls or apparel or hats or, or logoed bags for their business or for tournaments. So,
Speaker 2:So what did then, do you guys customize him ball?
Speaker 3:Sure. T's divot tools, barkers, customized packaging boxes, kind of all the consumer side on the corporate side, on the corporate side, it's a lot of shirts. It's a lot of hats. It's a lot of, uh, pretty much anything in the promotional product space we do as well. So if you think like we will, we, we sell koozies in addition to selling logo golf balls, the majority of our business is logo golf balls, but we also have a full spectrum of, uh, kind of promotional products as well. We have, uh, we've got a team of people that, that, uh, that work with our, with our, so do you guys do all the glare there? We, we do our printing here right about 50 people within our company that are kind of dedicated to our students have a lot of machines. It's, it's a lot of machines, so we don't have machines. We don't have, but, but we, we we've got, I heard that
Speaker 2:Printing on golf balls, art form, is that true? Like it's hard. Like it's not perfect. All it's easy to do. It's like, no, it's easy to screw it up.
Speaker 3:It's easy to, it's easy to do as long as you don't have to get it right. If you, if you, if you want to get it right in at scale, it's really hard to do. So we, we, we've made just about every mistake that anybody can make in developing and printing and producing and QC. And so we we've developed, uh, as, as we're, as a software developer, we've got, we feel like we've got a nice competitive advantage there because the software that drives our website, uh, we also, uh, develop software that drives our internal processes. So what you see on the website makes its way, makes its way through our organization takes no holdups. It's like literally product exactly the way exactly the way you want it. So it's got a nice prioritization system, a nice product imaging system. And we've got like checks all along the way to make, to, to help, to help keep help our, our, our shippers and our all printers from, from making mistakes in our order Packers, they crosscheck, they crosscheck everything. So, so like, like I said, we've made every mistake that can be made. Uh, and we, and we've tried to learn from those mistakes and bake that into our, into our current system, software and system,
Speaker 2:Which is kinda cool because like, you know, a lot of people are trying to do that now. Right. And you've done this over the course of many years. So he has a really huge competitive advantage because people are trying to either, they don't either, they're wanting to do what you have or they're trying to figure it out right now. You know what I mean? It's a hard process alone. You guys spent a lot of money doing it. If you, uh,
Speaker 3:One screw up can cost the profit on three orders. Right. So, so it kinda just, just Holy crap.
Speaker 2:Wow. I didn't think
Speaker 3:So if you, it, it, it's easy to get into as long as you don't make any mistakes, which is going to make a ton of, it's a nice business, as long as you don't, you know, it's but, but when you're dealing with someone's logo or you're dealing with someone's, uh, the image that they want a product, it's so easy to make a mistake. Right. And so the mistake, uh, if it's on apparel, it's, it's a, it's a very expensive mistake. If it's on a golf ball, it's less expensive, but it's still costly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because trash, well, it's not trash, but I mean, you use it, you can do as you have, but what do you do with those balls that didn't get printed. Right. Do you
Speaker 3:Still sell them?
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm on your site right now, which is a disc. I mean, it's still the same ball. It just says a weird bunch of random little stuff.
Speaker 3:Nobody else's, which has got a logo on it, or
Speaker 2:Because no one, some people don't care about that. They're like, Hey, I still got this really cool. You know, probably one, yeah. Has a heart on it. I don't really care about the heart, but whatever. I, probably one for a significant discount, you know? So then, I mean, you guys had a lot of stuff on your site. That's crazy. So then all the customization for like shirts and printing and stuff like that, is that all in house too? Or does that go offsite?
Speaker 3:W we do have a broiler. We have in-house embroidery. And we have, uh, the, the vast majority of what we produce is produced in house. If it's a really big order of, of apparel shirts, we'll probably have the manufacturer, has someone else do it just, just because it would consume too much of our, too much of our capacity here to, we don't try to do everything we just try to do. We just try to do most things here. If, if the echo
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can do without,
Speaker 3:Like, we probably let's just say in boy bordering, we might be 24 pieces here, or 48 pieces here. But if it's like 120 pieces, we probably not want to not want to do it in house. We probably have someone else, someone else do it all. So we'd probably go up to 500 dozen here. Uh, I mean, it depends on what it is. We might, we might depend, it depends on the capabilities, uh, and our relationship with the manager, with the manufacturers. Yeah. We do almost everything and ball here. Like, it just, it just depends on the, on the business side, it varies about this assignment.
Speaker 2:That's phenomenal. So then when it comes to the corporate stuff, then the same kind of thing, right. There's coming a corporate corporate, you know, they're a big corporate event. They'll come to you and say, we want to make a bunch of X, and then they can just do it themselves and use your software to figure out what that is. We are, our software
Speaker 3:Drives our production processes. We'll offer customers a preview, but that, that particular piece of business, it's just so easy to mess up. Like, it's just, if, if you don't get that right, either you don't want to have 50 shirts with the wrong logo on it or
Speaker 2:Complete, but you lost that. Like it's done, no, one's gonna buy that shirt.
Speaker 3:It's gone. While, while there's a good market for logo over on golf balls, there's not such a good market. It's like no market.
Speaker 2:You want to ship it, ship it off to some country, you know, and be like, Oh, it's a Paul golf challenge shirt. Nice. So, I mean, it looks like you have a lot of good relationships with all the top brands, right? Like you were
Speaker 3:All the big boys. We've built great relationships over, over 20 plus years with all the major manufacturers.
Speaker 2:So then like what's new for this year for you guys. Like what's coming, anything me on the spill, the beans, but like, what's your plan for 21?
Speaker 3:So our, uh, so we always get excited when manufacturers launch new products, right? Because it helps to help get the bar
Speaker 2:It's free marketing for you, right? Like, it's like,
Speaker 3:I I'd say from our perspective, we, we like to do something, uh, every year or two, that, that is, that is completely different or different in the market. And so, so we launched a product, uh, a year or two ago called a line Xcel, uh, which, which I'm sure you watched in your, in your 30 minutes of free time a week, you probably used to probably spend it watching a PGA tour tournament golf. Right. So, so the, uh, the, if you watch it, half of the guys have a line printed halfway around the ball, uh, as kind of an alignment aid that they use for planning. So, uh, a few years ago, we, we Mount a few like literally last year, and then we kind of made it, we made it a little bit better. Last year, we launched a personalized version of a line XL where you can have a line, we print the line halfway around the ball, just like the tour tour guys do, which is kind of tour validated. Uh, and then we'll let you put your name or your business name, or some kind of a message inside of that line. And it looks really cool. And so as if, if you look at how, you know, w what's new for this year, I think our align XL product line is going to continue to grow as a, as a percentage of, as a percentage of our business.
Speaker 2:Well, it's cool because, I mean, it's the best of both worlds, right? You have a way of aligning the ball and it's,
Speaker 3:They have a line lineman, a plus plus a personalization. And for us, it's unique in the market. And it turns out it's really, really hard to do at scale. We, uh, we're like our third iteration of our, of our equipment that we use to print this. And it's just, it's hard to bring a line at scale aligned, uh, halfway around the ball, uh, and, and get it right at the time. It's just hard to do. This is awesome
Speaker 2:Because it's like, you're more than, you know, some people say, well, you guys just sell personalized golf equipment, but it's more than that, because really what you're doing is you're more of a technology company in a way, because you're trying to connect the two worlds together, right? Like customization with golf equipment, it's all seamless. You know, it's not like I'm going to go to a printer and get some shirts made, right. For my golf tournament. It's more like we're designing software. That's going to make, it's kind of like the best of both worlds where you going to have, you know, uh, Lyman a plus your name or whatever you want. And they're actually gonna keep that ball. And they're probably going to be like, Oh, this ball is cool. I'm just going to start buying from golf balls.com and do whatever I want on it. You know?
Speaker 3:So that's what we hope happens. Uh, if you looked at our, uh, kind of our, our, our position in the market are, are kind of, you would say we're golf plus mass customization, plus e-commerce kind of the intersection of those is our sweet spot. Right. And we kind of know, we know that golf has been relatively flat until the last year, but mass customization has confessed mass customization and e-commerce have continued to grow, uh, every year for the last 20. You know,
Speaker 2:I honestly feel that, um, golfers want to be unique, right. Whatever that may be. I just, honestly, I just came to a realization in the last, like a year, right. Where it's like, you know, people might want a certain product because they like that brand, or it may be, but people really, at the end of the day, want to stand out on the course. Right. They want to, whatever that, that is.
Speaker 3:Yup. Yup. And it's cool. Look, nobody has to play golf. Nobody has to play golf. People, golfers play golf because it's fun. And so we w we w we like to produce things that help them have more fun either through game improvement or through, through a funny message or through something that they can share with their, with their, with their force. Right. Something that gives them, uh, it makes them feel just makes them have a little bit more fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think it's cool is that, I mean, not only do you sell balls and customized apparel and balls, but you have the equipment side too, which is, I don't know. It just kind of blew my mind. Cause I was like, Oh my gosh. You know? Cause like people, you know, like myself might not have known that you guys do everything, literally you do everything. And I mean, I knew who you guys were. I knew your story a little bit. Cause I've heard it somewhere else. I'm or it was, but I just think it's cool because you're one of the first, right. You're if not like there's only a really small handful of companies that started in the nineties that are still around, they're called eCom.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I don't, I don't know that we were the first, but I think we're the, we were the first that are still around now. Like I'm saying like a lot of people don't know that anybody predates us that is still an existence now. I don't know. I think it
Speaker 2:Goes to you guys historically, and then I think it goes, uh, global golf. That's what I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. And as a real innovator, I mean, they, they, they took the use the use club space and just turned it into a term charted from a, uh, from a hodgepodge, uh, swap and trade swap me to a real deal this time,
Speaker 2:A real industry. I mean, brilliant mind. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. But I had him on the iPad on the show too. And so ed was saying that, um, the way he started, you know, it was through like buying equipment from Eva or trying to sell them on eBay and that kind of thing. But then, you know, putting out, putting all the pieces together, actually make an industry out of it, which is, there's a lot of money
Speaker 3:From a swap meet to a real, to a real industry. Like, and, and I, I know, I know. And the team really led that led that transition. And I, and I'd argue that the internet really, uh, really enabled that for them too. Right. Like absent the internet, uh, that, that industry is not, not nearly as far along as it is now.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I think golf will continue to be what, what happened last year will continue, you know, maybe not some people are like, Oh, we're worried that we're not gonna play as much golf. You know, maybe it's maybe that may or may not be true, however, evil, new golfers. Right. So if we get them easy, you know, get him is part of your, you know, have know who you are and that's really their game. Then it's an easier transition to be like, Oh, that's what I want to buy from because they have the best stuff.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty excited that, uh, the Callaway bought taco. Like, I feel like that say, uh, that will be good for the, for the future of player, player development, right? Like KA Calla, uh, having, having, uh, uh, a giant manufacturer, one of the top two manufacturers by, by the biggest off course, kind of kind of entertainment, golf, you know, not non-core small business may have a big incentive to, to convert those top golf golfers into, into that's why they did it. Right. Of course, golfers,
Speaker 2:You said that, but that's the whole reason why they did it. They're taking the recreational guy who's going there, or gal hit drinking some beers and hitting at a cool driving range and, and teaching them about their brand. And they're pretty much just bought a channel.
Speaker 3:I suppose. I suspect that the economics are pretty good on its own because I, you know, Tim's going to chimps going to make really good economic decisions on the other hand. You're right. Kind of if, if, if we could make money on its own, it's a good acquisition and they can, they can help transition, help usher in a whole new millions of golfers from off-course golf to OnCourse golf. We will all benefit from that. The whole, the whole industry will benefit. No. Right. Because another big
Speaker 2:Play right now, I'm seeing it is the simulator space. Like people like, you know, I talked to somebody last week, they're in Manhattan and they're like, Oh yeah, it's winter here. So we all go to whatever Brooklyn or somewhere, there's a big simulator place. You can go play golf and doors. And it's like a bar. And I'm like, and then the next day, or so I'll say the same thing. I'm like, Oh my God. It's like happening everywhere now where people just want to like, especially in the States where there's freezing and winter and stuff, like,
Speaker 3:You know, I was in Korea two years ago and in Korea there's more screen, they call it screen balls. There's more screen balls than there is Encore skull. And so it is it's. I agree with you. I think it's a trend coming. I think it's coming. I don't think it's coming at the same pace. I don't know. I think there's a lot of,
Speaker 2:It costs a lot of money for those Sims, like a lot of money.
Speaker 3:It's like the golfers like to be outside too when they can, you know, I think they have a choice and I think it's seasonal right. Supplement to have fun with the game. But, um, but I, I don't like th there's, I mean, there's, there's plenty of people in Korea that have never played on a golf course that are cha they're excellent champions. They played it like,
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I shot under part Augusta national, like really? Yeah. On what tiger woods called 2015. I think, I think it's a cool space. Golf is really interesting. What's happening. I mean, I think with, with what happened last year with COVID with the rise of Shopify and the ability of people starting brands, you know, it's a good time to, to, to learn and try to grow a brand. If you're interested in doing that.
Speaker 3:I agree. It hasn't, it hasn't been a great time to enter the golf space for many years. And I think that has changed. It's changed significantly in the last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would tend to agree on that for sure. I mean, it should be a very interesting year. We'll see what I mean. I'm kind of excited to see what happens. It be exciting if the growth from last year sustained, if it's equal to or greater than it was last year, I'll be blown away. And then our, now that's a vaccine. We'll see what happens
Speaker 3:If, if it stays, if it stays flat year over year, it's a really good year for golf. That was a lot of growth. Last year, he
Speaker 2:Has like 300% right. Or something crazy.
Speaker 3:It was definitely double digit growth, uh, on a, on the full year.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's like something nuts. Well, I'm really excited to have you on the show. I've been following you from afar. And so, um, I'm really excited to have you on the show and to be working with you in the future. You guys have to check out golf balls.com. It's like the coolest website, honestly, because if you're into customization with like, I am, they pretty much do everything and it's all there and you'll get it fast. But you guys have flat rate shipping too. Wow. That's crazy. Five 95 flagship. That's five times five flat flat. If you want it tomorrow, we can get it to you tomorrow as well, but still it's cool. I mean, that's just so you guys need to check out golf balls.com. Tom, thank you for being on the show today. I know you're a very busy man and I appreciate you being here and sharing your story with us. And I look forward to doing more with you guys in the future. Chatting green ball. Thank you for having me on your show. All right. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast, you're going to beat me like stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you're winning, stay out of the beach and see you on the green.