Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

Ep #25 - Manors Golf: JoJo Regan (Co-Founder)

November 27, 2020 Paul Liberatore Season 1 Episode 25
Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
Ep #25 - Manors Golf: JoJo Regan (Co-Founder)
Show Notes Transcript

We made it to Episode 25 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. Thank you for all of the comments and emails. In this week's episode I interview my friend  JoJo Regan from Manors Golf.

Manors Golf Apparel is here to stay, there’s no doubt about it.  The company has found a way to bring cool back into a sport that’s remained largely stuffy and unchanged for decades.  The creative vision of Jojo and his co-founders is undeniable and there doesn’t appear to be anything standing in their way as they continue to roll out new collections of fine apparel and accessories. 

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Speaker 1:

Today, we play a golf. Let me show you how we do it in the pros. Welcome to behind the golf brand podcast. I've never missed with the seminar, a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range from pro talk. You should learn something each and every single round you play to fund from on and off the green. Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money. Just let me put the ball in the hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast with Paul libertory behind the golf brand podcast is sponsored by OnPoint. The revolutionary three-dimensional dome golf ball marker on point provides a layman recognition as small as a degree of inaccuracy from the planned course of the putt face angle endorsed by Jim Furich us open champion and 17 time PGA tour winner. On point alignment technology has been proven to increase putting performance and help lower your score. Visit OnPoint golf.us, and be sure to use code GA 10 for a 10% discount on point, make more points.

Speaker 2:

What's up guys, Paul from golfers authority, and I have a very special guest today, all from far away place called England. So it's there about six hours ahead. I think I'm not really sure, but, um, I'm super excited to have on this show. This is my friend Jojo from manners golf. I found manners on Instagram probably over a year ago. I just thought they had a cool style and vibe just by looking at their Instagram account. And I had reached out to, to, to Jojo and I was like, Hey man, this is cool. And we started working with them and we actually did a review coming up with, uh, with them soon on the site. So I can't wait to share that with you, but their clothes are like, I dunno, it's like this aesthetic. That's just, it's like a little bit of old school and new school combined. And I love it because it's like bringing back like the core of the game. So without further ado, I have my friend, Joe, Joe Regan from manners golf. Welcome to the show, Joe. Thanks very much for having me. So where do you, so where are you exactly? I know you're in London, right in London. Yeah. England West London, to be exact. Is that the cool part of London West London? You always hear about like, Oh, I don't know. It's good. It's a nice, a nice part of town, but you still can't escape the rain. So, um, we're doing our best to go out and go for as much as we can. So when does the rainy season started in England now, get it. You can get it we're with, with London in England, but now is where it really kicks off and just it's relentless heavy, relentless rain, so less than ideal conditions. And so like really once that happens, pretty much golf is done then. Right. It gets colder. I'm assuming like higher up in England or Scotland and stuff like that. And snow, it gets cold and it does get cold even in London, but it's, I mean, it's not, it's not too bad, but you know, as long as it's, if it's sunny and cold and cool with playing in night, it's just when it's hammering it down with Ray. And

Speaker 3:

That's when it, that's when it's really struggle street with.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I, I have, uh, when I was in high school, my dad, I went to London or Scotland play golf, and I've never been a rainstorm like that in my entire life because it rained the entire time. And then out of you guys know this, but like the courses in Europe or in England are way different than it is in the United States. So they just keep on going, like they're a straight line. Right. And then they come back like here, I'd say it's like zigzag. It's always close to the clubhouse in Scotland where we played it wasn't even like that. And it just rained and rained and rained rain, rain. And I was like, it was like sideways rain. Like I was like, what the Frick? And I think by like the 14th hole, my dad lost all the balls at that point. So we're renting balls for Bibles. And he was like, okay, here's the real story. So he goes to Scotland, we're going to play golf. Right. And my dad's like, okay, we only have five balls, whatever. And so he was like, don't lose these ball. And I was in high school and I was like, all right, fine. So I, so out of 14 holes, he lost four balls. And I still had my ball in my hand. Right. So by the time he lost his 14, his last ball, he was like, all right, let's go back. And we literally walked for like 45 minutes back at the clubhouse. Like they'll far away. We were, it was just poor. I remember it was literally water coming down the sides of the mountain or the Hills or whatever. I've never seen it

Speaker 3:

Go to school in Scotland. You've got the wind as well. And it's, it's tough. I was actually just out when Scott not playing and we were pretty lucky without the rain, but we still had like 30, 40 mile an hour where it's tough. That is tough.

Speaker 2:

So cold too. Like, it just beats you down. Like this is the summertime. It was like pouring rain and I'm from Arizona. And it's like, it never rains here. Right. Ever. I think we've gone like 60 days I'll drop a rain. And they said on the news the other day, I was like, no wonder, so hot. So, I mean, it was like, it was cool to see the R ay, but I was like, how do people play golf in this? But, a nd like, the grass is all high and like mangy l ook i n, you know, like it's l ike t hat. I don't know what you call that, but it's just different.

Speaker 3:

It's tough. Tough,

Speaker 2:

Tough. It's tough. I still shoot this. I should be a Manor shirt. The roughest time. I'm going to change like that. Hold off for a second. So I guess my first question to you is what, how, what's your first memory of golf really? Like how long you been playing golf?

Speaker 3:

So I, I, I know it pretty well because my dad doesn't actually play, which is often how a lot of people get into the game, uh, through, you know, a parent or a sibling. Um, but what it was when we were on holiday and cause my birthday's in August, so we'd always go on a family holiday. And this particular time we spent it with another family of ours, friends of ours and that the dad played, but he didn't have a son at the time. So he was like, right, I need to give you golf like first. So for my birthday, he gave me a little set of TaylorMades one with like the Brown driver cover. Um, and, uh, uh, he, he was like, you're going to be a golfer. You got to play. So my dad then would use as an excuse to go out and sit on the phone while I was at the driving range, um, get out of the house. And after that, it was just, uh, it's just something I just kind of fell in love with, obviously like we will do we get that bug? Um, and yeah, I mean, I grew up with the game. I of like a lot of people I think fell out of playing in my teenage years because some things become a bit more important, girls being one of them. Um, but you know, we managed to get back into it kind of just before, uh, sort of my twenties. And then now it's just this life, you know?

Speaker 2:

So did you grow up like in London or outside of London?

Speaker 3:

Kind of a mix. So I was in London for sort of my early years and then teenagers was outside of town. Um, and that's actually where I could pick up, pick up a little more golf. Cause then London is, it's a bit of a, it's a bit tough play anywhere right in the center. Um, so when I got sort of 13, I think it was moved off town. And uh, when I went to my senior school, which is, I guess, what is that? Like? I don't know, senior school that's when high school. Exactly. That's when I started, um, playing a lot more because

Speaker 2:

You're out of the city. Right. So you're able to play a lot more,

Speaker 3:

So much more land and stuff.

Speaker 2:

So when, when did you start manners? Like, how'd that start like, is that your background is like apparel and stuff or like what's the beginning. What's the evolution of, of manners?

Speaker 3:

Um, so it's not at all my background in terms of like actually producing clothes, but before manners, I wa I started a digital marketing agency. Um, and, uh, I did that with two co-founders and we specialized initially in web design and development. And then we started working on digital strategy and social media marketing. So I was there for seven years and we specialized in working with e-commerce brands, like all startups, you know, not, not big businesses to start with, but we were basically just the cheapest option for, you know, at the time we were in the right place at the right time, we just hostel, you know, we were all in the

Speaker 2:

You're hustlers. Yeah. You're hustlers. And you knew how to do so you know how to do marketing? You're a marketer.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. It's like 2012. And it seems crazy to say, because it isn't that long ago, but you know, you didn't have Shopify Squarespace work. So you had the early stages of it. So a lot of these founders who were starting their businesses just didn't have time to learn how to code. So I mean, a few friends, like I said, put the business together and we just got, got lucky.

Speaker 2:

I knew that about you. That's awesome. I love this stuff. Like, this is what I love. Like digital marketing is freaking awesome

Speaker 3:

And it's great to be on the ground floor of it. And we, you know, we ended up working with some big brands, the agencies, but I just got bored of building other people's brands. I mean, bull was probably the wrong word, but it's difficult because we built some really interesting businesses,

Speaker 2:

But, but it's like, you don't have the path. It's not, it's not yours. Right. You're just, you're just a cog in a machine. So it's like, you're not the passion behind that brand is there's none. It's like, okay, we're going to get it out there for you, you know, and get care about it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's tough. Cause like our job was, we would get into some point and often if they successful, then you kind of have to, it's like, Oh, we're done with you. So yeah. Thanks for, I guess to stage two. And you're like, wait a minute. We did all the work like you guys. Yeah. You do that. So freaking cool. I love, I love talking to marketers. Like that's I think in golf, well, I think in really any brand development, like, you know, a lot of people have come, come up with really cool designs or products, but they don't know how to get it over the coal line. They have no idea. Right. So they didn't think, Oh, I, I spend this money on my patents and trademarks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they said, I went to the PGA show and it's like, dude, it doesn't matter. Like no one knows who you are and you don't have a message. So no one's ever going to buy your product. Sorry. Like that's, that's just the truth. And then, I mean, other than that, through my own father, like 20 years ago when he was doing golf training aid, like same thing, like nobody knows who you are. So it doesn't matter. Um, I think that the kind of the fortunate thing that we had at manners from an early stage was so there's three separate to my agency. There's two other founders. There's three of us in total and you know, my marketing background and building a business. Um, Luke is one of the co-founders. Um, he does, uh, he's a director. He does short films, commercials, music, videos, so super creative and a neck. Uh he's uh, he's he's fashion is by trade. He's known as fashion. So you kind of bring those three elements together, I think is kind of quite trifecta. Well, I mean, yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like you have, but you need to build a successful brand. Right? Like it just works, you know? And so that's why like I have a different side of my brain, so the other guys, but together it created what we have and I think that's why the business is sound. Um, you know, and that's kind of what I want to bring to it. But then like Luke and what he can bring from a creative standpoint with visuals and video, you know, you guys have seen what we've put out that I think that helps people understand the brand and resonate with the brand, because then it's not just about buying product. Cause you know, it's good product is also about kind of feeling associated with the brand and seeing it evolve, which is, you know, a huge part of building any business. Now you have the story right? Who they are. It's not just about the product. You can really cool product that is innovative and cool looking. But like if there's no story behind it and the understanding like that as an ally, it doesn't get you there. So what year do you still have the agency to do I sell it or did you sell it? My co-founders they still run it. Um, we did a management buyout, so it's not my day-to-day anymore, but I'm still, I still have an interest in the business. And you know, I chat to the guys every day. It's really important spot to stay in tune with what's going on there because it's directly attributable to matters a hundred percent, right. Your hands on the pulse of, of marketing, of digital marketing and of what's there, it's like, if you that's good that you mean that you still have that because then you're able to know what's happening, what's working,

Speaker 2:

What's not working. And I mean, you don't have the background. So, you know, but just, it's always evolving, right? Digital market is always evolving. Um, and I've found that out.

Speaker 3:

I certainly think now I think now is harder than ever to build a brand. I think that they build, you know, and I think because when we were launching brands in kind of 2016, you could Chuck something up and everyone's willing to follow and like, and people could grow these accounts so quick. That would not really much substance. Now people are way more follow shy. So, you know yeah, we can, we're growing and it's great to see, but it's way more, it's way more difficult to engage and convert people into followers. You might like your stuff, but actually growing an audience is a much more difficult thing. Now

Speaker 2:

I would disagree. I mean, I think you saw that last year. Here's some nerd talk for everybody. I think you saw that last year and Instagram, because all of a sudden they did their like algorithm change or whatever the hell they did back on the summertime was that last year. Yeah. That was last summer. And like, it's hard as hell. Like, first of all, I just want you guys know and Instagram, you just because you post something on your, on your feed isn't doesn't mean it's going to show up on your people's feed because they're messing with that. And second of all, it's hard as hell to get followers. Like I don't know. It just is. I mean, unless it's hard. I mean every brand has it. So the people that have like a hundred or 200,000 followers, like that's their net and last three or four years, but they're not getting that many a month anymore. They're probably getting like a couple hundred a month that they're lucky.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And that I think people realize that they know, and you can go buy followers. That's. Number one, but two like, like they're clamping down on that too. Right. So, which is a good thing. Cause you're, it's fakes the community better, but I it's interesting. You say that it is, you know, I didn't think about that because maybe it wasn't really in this game in 2016, like, you know, I see a lot of, I guess last year or maybe two years ago, I saw a lot more, I call them, want to be brands that people are like wanting to make a brand. They pull a Shopify store and like they buy some stuff from China. Right. And then it's like, but I'm seeing less of that now. And I think because one cause to COVID, but two, I think people are just kind of like burned out on that. Right. So like as a consumer,

Speaker 3:

So the way the platforms are now leveraged is again, like you touched on, they want, and when I say they, we mean Facebook and via Facebook, Instagram, they want you to have to pay to get in front of people. And yeah. So, so that is why it's now so much more difficult. The barriers to entry have gone up. So you can't just drop some giants and merge made in China much without having to also put a lot of cash behind that. And so I think people are less, you know, less interested in doing that because there's no easy wins

Speaker 2:

There's no, yeah. It's funny. We're having this conversation. I just find it interesting because like I see it too. I don't have that kind of a merger or anything like that, but I mean, I've seen it where it, Facebook wants to control everything and in case anybody didn't know, like even if you have like products on Facebook or Instagram, right? Like now they're re they're like, Oh, we redesigned it. And really what that is. They want you to pass through to them now they don't want you to go. They don't want you to jump off their site and go to Shopify. They want you to purchase through Facebook. Right? Like whether they're trying to control the pipeline right. Of the sale, which in my personal opinion is because it's another business. Right. But then it's like, well, you wanna use our platform. You gotta play by our rules. H e i s not cool. So what year then did M anor start?

Speaker 3:

So the first conversations for 2018, we did, um, we kind of shook hands informally on a deal as the 18. And then we started working on the project late 2018, early 2019. And then we launched off us product June, 2019. So it was like,

Speaker 2:

Right. Like I did like a couple of weeks. So then that first drop you had, like how long it takes you to get to like, I guess level one, right? To get it out there to take you like a while.

Speaker 3:

I mean, bearing in mind that Nick obviously had some experience, but we started a lot to learn. And we also, we definitely bit off, more than we could chew in terms of the number of products we decided to bring out. Um, that's obviously with hindsight in mind, but it, it was a property of an eight, eight month process. And a lot of the issues were around finding a manufacturer to work with because obviously all our stuff's made in England. So, you know, there's a lot of things

Speaker 2:

Really that's bad dude. That's awesome. I love hearing that.

Speaker 3:

So a lot of stuff was, you know, manufacturers that were great, but then they were like, you're new. I don't know who you are. I'm not, I don't have any capacity and your quantities are too low. So we have to find manufacturers that were willing to kind of take a risk on us, which takes a long time. Um, now, you know, because they can see a nice website with nice products and everything they go out.

Speaker 2:

Okay. No worries. Yeah. But when you're like levels yeah. Like in the beginning, they're like, who the hell are you? Right.

Speaker 3:

Know, the Gog ended up working with, he said that he'd get 50, 60 inquiries a week saying, Hey, I'm the brand I'd like to work with. You, can you produce my clothes? And he's got to sift through all of that to work out, which is good, which is bad. And by the way, which, you know, whilst managing the big client

Speaker 2:

Yeah. That was already producing. I love to hear that because like, I mean, when I hear that a brand is actually from the country or the state or the city, whatever it is, like, imagine they actually produce the product. Like I have way more respect for that brand. Like dormy for example, like they're Nova Scotia, a hundred percent everything's been in Canada, like that's bad-ass right. Like, and I think there's less of that as well. I think because of, we're just sort of global gig economy that like, there's less of it. Right. But when you hear a brand like, Hey, we're made in Romania, England, and we're an English brand. That's like, okay, you're a, bad-ass, you know, like

Speaker 3:

A lot of our stuff is made. I can take the tube to East London. So it's important for us. I think because, you know, quality is a big part of our, you know, our mantra at the brand. So being able to actually hold and touch and be tactile with it, but also like, you know, don't want to get into politics, but Brexit that's evolving. Like a lot of people produce in Portugal or, you know, a lot

Speaker 2:

Of shoe companies do a lot.

Speaker 3:

It's tough to know like what's going to happen. post-Brexit so actually let's lock in higher prices to produce here, but at least we know what we're, what we're in for. Um, we don't know

Speaker 2:

What you're paying and you're not the worry about like Brexit issues or whatever it's going to happen.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And that's one element, but it is more important for us that it is made in England. And you know, when we start, we've had conversations with brands, with, you know, accounts in Japan and Korea. And we worked with one in Japan already, you know, their customers love it. They love that it's made in England. Um, and I think that's something that we were taken into account when considering plans for future collections as well.

Speaker 2:

Well, I never knew that about you. I mean, I don't, I mean, that's, I, I respect that very much because I, I have a profound appreciation for that because you know, a lot of brands I talked to can't produce a product in the United States and it's not because we don't have the infrastructure, but it's because of the cost. Right. And because like for molds or whatever, you know, but it's like when a brand and maybe it's with a peril or I don't know, it's really true. I mean, a couple of brands I've talked to recently, they're like, Oh yeah, we're made wherever. I'm like, Oh really? That's awesome. Like that's phenomenal.

Speaker 3:

I think, yeah. I think that the tough thing is when you go to pot, the cost of production is higher and you have to pass that cost onto your customer. Right. And we, you know, we are obviously a golf brand. We sell to, you know, in a market that is saturated with Nike, the Underarmour, the RDS, you know, those guys have very loyal consumers. And if you put a manners, Poteau next to a Nike dry fit polo, fundamentally two very different products. But one is going to be able to retail that of 40 bucks and Oz are, you know, in the sort of 80 to 90 range, that completely different products. But we have to kind of explain that story to people. So if we came at it in, if we came to the market and said, Hey, don't shop Nike, shop ours because we sell exactly what they do, but with a different brand and that's not going to work. So for us, we come at it from a different angle. You know, we are a lifestyle brand. We are a cotton, you know, an English, cotton product. We're not a, you it's chalk and cheese when you actually break it down. And I think it's so much of that, our responsibility to explain that to consumers, because you know, we get messages from people saying, dude, you know, 80 bucks for a polo, like that's crazy. And it's like, well, you know, it's like, you have to educate people about the production process. Like this isn't made in China. This is English cotton in a London factory or less the factory, you know, it's, it doesn't even take into account like the marketing, the content budgets, the ways, everything that comes into it. And that's a whole new world for, um, which we're enjoying. But it's a process that, you know, it takes time,

Speaker 2:

The same conversation with, with dormy a couple of weeks ago. And it was the same thing, right? Like, they're like, Oh, you have$120 a head cover. And they initially that was always a big people were like, I'm not, I spend$120 on, I had cover. And it's like that initial couple years of growing a brand, like people I'd understand, like, look, you're not buying some cheap thing. Right. You're buying a handmade product in Canada made by an artist. Right. And that like there's qualities there. And I, and now people's know like, Oh, you want weight? I think in golf, I think there's an, we have an advantage. Right. Because people are used to spending money on nice stuff. Right. And so it's like another products, other sports, not so much, right. Like basketball or baseball or something else like that, like you're not gonna go buy an$80 basketball shirt, right. Or a baseball shirt or squash or whatever cricket, like, you know, so I think golfers are used to spending money, right? Like one club's$500. So it's like, if you want a quality bag, you know, like, or a quality, whatever you're used to spending the money. So I think it's like, it's hard because how do you still overcome that? Right. When people are not used to spending that kind of money, right? Like, Oh, I want to spend$80 for a polo. It's like, what you already are, you know, people buy, uh, a polo brand polo, how much the polo brand polo, 70 bucks, 60 bucks. So same price you use it's because you're buying something quality your night. So it's, the balance is hard.

Speaker 3:

It's like, you know, someone offered you a Scotty, Cameron Pasa for a hundred bucks. Even like, what's up, there's something there's gotta be something

Speaker 2:

China. And you tacked on Scotty, Cameron, he spelled it wrong.

Speaker 3:

How do you know that Scotty Cameron partners don't cost a hundred cost, a hundred bucks. And that's because, you know, as an educated consumer, you know, the brand, right. So I think every time we get product in people's hands for us, that is an opportunity for us to showcase the quality that we have. Like, you know, I've spoken about already. And every time we do that, people always come back to us. Like, dude, the quality man, they even on the t-shirts and the fit and everything.

Speaker 2:

Like the ones you sent me, I was like, Holy sh I, it blew me out of the water. Like, like the detail and the sewing. I know it sounds really weird. You guys, but like the detail and the sewing for when you had like the, the, I think what collections that, the map, the, um, they had a Jack Nicholas I think, look like, right. And I was like, Holy crap. How did they sell that into you just looked at and go, that's Jack Nicholas. But like, they sewed it like that. I dunno. Like you can tell

Speaker 3:

That alone. I mean, I con collection collection. Yeah. I mean you, cause those ones there, they they've all sold out. Um, and those icons, we, we, I think we did like seven or eight embroidery samples to get to that quality, which is just enough that you can tell who it is and that, you know, it looks good, but not too much that the detail then becomes a bit weird. Yeah. And the sizes and everything. So what you see as a final product is like with fashion brand, you know,

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of iterations that have got you to that point. I don't know. I just think it's really cool because it's like, you get what you paid for on call. I feel like. And so people are used to buying something cheap. There's really nothing cheap and golf. There really isn't, you know, like you can see it in different products, right? Like you see with gloves, right. Cause gloves are going up in price. Right. Hats. Like people like other types of parallel shoes. I mean, you see a lot of new brands come out that are shoe companies that are not like the foot joys. Right. Like I work with a bunch of them like, uh, Royal Albert Ross and who else? Like Cozmo, like, it's more of a higher end shoe, but it's, but it's, it's it's fashion, you know, it's like a fashion call shoe, which I think people want something cool, you know, and unique and are willing to spend the extra money because we're talking about golf, right? Like it's not like, this is what we do for fun. You know, it's, it's funny because I think with goals, like, let's say you go to the pro shop and, um, your you've gone on holiday somewhere and you're playing and you need to buy some balls. You're not really that price conscious. You're thinking you might have a favorite ball. You might have one that, you know, used to, you know, it's meant to be market leader, but you always ended up leaning towards paying for a premium ball because you think it might just help the school. One last shot, you know, it might help you a little bit. And that's the thing with golf is there's so many variables in the game. There's one thing that for us as a brand that we want to take out of it is, you know, this thing, this whole stigma around golf closing, and this idea that if you dress as a golfer, you're easily identifiable on the high street. Like that guy is either going to play golf or has played golf. You know, for us, it's like shooting a 79 or an 89. Isn't going to be, it's not going to be the difference between me wearing a dry fit polo and me wearing, you know, a chill cotton blend, whenever something comfortable. So we're like, we're just talking to the amateurs out there, which make up 99% of the game to say like, you can just take a step back, relax, look good, the way you play and take the look on and off the course, you know? Cause that's something that with your friends are going to go to a pub or when you were at a home with your family or whatever, like it's still comfortable, cool clothing, right. Like even though it's golf related. And I think you see that with like other brands too, like you look at truly where, right? Like they came into golf and they were like, Hey, we're trying to make comfortable shoes. That's it. Right. Like you can walk in cause nobody walked anymore. And it's like, you change the narrative by coming up with something more innovative that like people want to use or wear. And I think that I'm seeing that a lot more now. I feel like with some brands, you know, it's funny because you say no one walks in, in England, no one gets a buggy told somebody told me that, cause I was talking to Modo catty and they're like, yeah, no one walks. I wouldn't, I wouldn't use a cat know cart here. I'm like seriously. Whereas in the States, anytime I pick the opposite. Yeah. And it's the same in Scotland as well and stuff, but you know, comfortable shoes are essential in the UK because you do a lot of walking and they're hilly until he is hell like you British. Um, okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I was just impressed by what you guys were doing initially, first of all, your Instagrams are like, Oh, this looks cool. And I liked like your logo. And I was like, I'm a low nerd. And so I was like, Oh, it's a good logo. And then I was like, that's a kind of drew me in. Right. Initially it was my funny, I started a logo I think on Instagram. And I was like, what's manners. And then, you know, we got to know each other, but like what you guys are doing, there's only a couple of apparel brands that I, that I feel that are actually starting to move the needle on new, cool fashion. Like you guys definitely. And I work with rata and who rata is like the same way. Like I love, I love bringing everyone to the game. Right? Like you don't have to be that stuffy person wear the polo shirt and khaki pants every time. Right. You could wear like comfortable clothing that looks cool. And you know, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I think, you know, you mentioned router that like, there's, there's a handful of brands rather.

Speaker 2:

Oh, a handful. I don't even, I can't even think of that many. Like honestly

Speaker 3:

I think the beauty of it is, is that there's a lot that pop up, but it's quite quick to identify the ones which, you know, have substance and the ones that might just, which is no problem, you know, there's no problem that people are doing that. That's great because it's awareness building. Right. But I think it's about having a genuine interest in trying to, like you said, move the needle. Um, kind of mantra if I had to put one down is, is changing the perception of the game. Um, and for too long, I think golf's been considered and inaccurately potentially. But if you asked a non golfer, you'd say, what do you think of golf that they're most likely going to mention? You know, probably white middle-class elitist country club. And actually there's so much going on in the game that isn't really highlighted because that perception is in place. And it's, it makes very more interesting reading. Right. But actually we will know that there's a real undercurrent now, which I think is coming up. Um, we are really proud to be part of it. And, but we also know that it's not just going to be us, that will make that change. So we're very supported a Brown's eight rather. And I, I even, you know, we chat with them, you know, more, more now, so than ever. Um, so it's exciting to be part of it. And, uh, I think it's, I think it's a really early stages.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah. It's very early. It's a couple of years out, I think before it gets like mainstream, but you're seeing it like, I mean, I'm seeing, I guess if you have your pulse on what's going on in the golf apparel world outside of like dry fit or like, you know, special clothing made for weather, like I'm talking about cool apparel, there's only like, I can only count on one hand probably that many brands that are actually there. I feel like we're moving the needle in a different direction. You know what I mean? And you guys are one of them and that's why I want you want to share.

Speaker 3:

And I think as well, you know, the thing is the state is a lot more progressive, so I've paid it. I've been lucky to pay good, some good courses in California and LA and stuff. The like our places, that way you can go and just play in a t-shirt and shorts and you know, the UK is still quite, and you know, the South of England and stuff is still quite far behind, is it really, I didn't ethical. I don't know that. Yeah. I mean, it's very much kind of, you know, recently at the PGA at Wentworth club and sorry, um, Terrell Hatton, who's an Englishman, he won the comp he's kind of local to the area as well. It's like a million pound purse you notice. So it's one of the biggest in Europe because in the U S that's kind of nothing because the PGA events are massive that, but, um, he won it and he wore a hoodie every a 90 dash 30 every day. And the chat wasn't about him winning. It was that he wanted in a hoodie and, you know, it's kind of like

Speaker 2:

Stigma, right? It's like breaking the stigma,

Speaker 3:

You know why? Right. And I think it was really fun to see that conversation develop because a lot of people look to us and they see, you know, people like, well, you guys sell hoodies. That's not really golf clothing. It's like, we identify that is not traditionally golf stuff. Right. But let's think what was traditionally golf, you know, 60 years ago, 50 years ago, what it is now and where can we take the game? Um, and staying relevant so important to that. So I think that we're, we're seeing that change, but the U S is probably two years ahead of where we are on the UK. Maybe a little bit more as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, I mean, one thing I'm starting to see, well, especially with Coban and talking to a lot of my friends at different brands is like, you know, golf has always been a very inclusive sport. Right. And so it was like you had, you had to have money, right? Some, some fashion to be able to play. And you know, at least in the United States with so many other sports on television, like baseball, football, every single one, pretty much like, you know, golf always took like, you know, numbers five or six on the list, right. Where people will actually care about now, guys would go play with their friends. Don't give me like, you know, like the normal stuff, but this year, because COVID, and you literally can't, you know, there's no sports, there was no sports on television, number one, and you couldn't really be around anybody like golf exploded here. I know it exploded everywhere around the world, but I think what there's more new golfers than there ever was before. And it's like, which is cool because now it's like, you can make those changes in fashion and style. And these people are new to the game. So they're not already have a preset mind, like, Oh, I got to wear Brown khaki looking pants with a polo shirt when I go play golf with my foot Joyce shoes, you know, I don't know. And I think like for me personally, with what we do, like, I love working with brands like you and, you know, because I wanted to get the word out on that because I love that stuff. You know, like

Speaker 3:

I think the interesting thing that, that you make a great point about we've new people to the game. Um, how do we like how we make sure that the first touch point might be some excited, different? A really good example is, um, in cycling, like cycling had a big boom, um, in Europe, especially in the last kind of 10 years and a brand that really took that. Um, a lot of that was Rafa. Um, I don't know if you've heard of Rafa, but, um, they basically a kind of like heritage inspired, but modern cycling gear. And now anyone is like, if I don't, I don't, it's like if I was to start cycling, I would buy Rafa clothing because that is kind of in my psyche. What I see is like, you know, cooling in cycling, cycling clothes. Yeah. I think if someone's now deciding, and I've had lots of my friends who don't golf go, dude, I'm going to, I'm going to golf now. Like they know about us, but like some, you know, some random average, Joe who's decided to stop playing the first place he might go is his club pro shop, which pro shops around the UK. It's, they're just stuffed full of what you would see as the, you know, currently is in golf. Right. It's all the performance stuff. So the next kind of phase for Roz will be trying to creep into the right kind of clubhouses so that we can actually be there when people might be considering that first, you know, that first purchase that first touchpoint

Speaker 2:

Hardest thing I had is argument somebody yesterday on another brand, actually a cycling brand. I don't my cycler, but like they're Asha mountain bike company. And I was talking about this and they asked me, they go, well, how many, at least with my opinion. And they said, do you think a lot of people shop in the pro shop? And I said, no. I'm like, I think they have to, right. They don't go to a pro shop and be like, I'm going to go buy all money stuff today. Like, you know, they go there and they forget something. Then they go back or called out or they need a hat or they need whatever they'll buy it. Right. But I think like, I'm like, can I ask this person? I say, will, okay. Mountain the Bible, mountain biking world. Do you go to a bike store and buy your stuff? He was like, no, I Google it. And I find it, or I read about it. I'm like, exactly. The golf is the same way. Right? Like if you're not playing golf that day and you're at the golf course, then you're not going to buy at the pro shop ever. Right. So, and I think, you know, that, that's what I like to do is I like being able to put that message out there, like, Hey, you have options. There's other cool brands out there. You don't need to go buy, you know, a big, a big five companies. T-shirt first of all, here's a newsflash. They don't even make those shirts. They actually like sub sub contract with bigger apparel companies to make all their shirts. Just letting you guys know that. Cause I know that for a fact. So it's not like if you go buy, you know, a Callaway shirt that was made a cow that was made by somebody else that just put a Callaway logo on it. So, I mean, when you actually go with like somebody like manners or rata or somebody that's like innovative and coming out with cool gear, that's their stuff, you know, it's like, they're going to get, get this made by somebody else. And I think people need to know that. Right. Cause they don't, people don't know where their stuff's coming from. So

Speaker 3:

No, I think, I think as why that more people want to know it, they want to know like where the product's coming from, especially there's so much going on about, especially in Europe right now about wastage in fast fashion and all these fast fashion brands that, you know, people are purchasing items they'll use once or twice because they're buying dresses for eight quid now 10 bucks and they just use them and then discard them. And so this idea that like the Patagonia model of you buy and that you own it and we fix and we change and we do, you know, like that is something that people are a lot more of. So the hope is they're willing to invest in a higher quality product, which they can use for longer. Um, and that's, that is something definitely, I don't know about the States, but I know that in the UK it's something that people are really pushing on at the moment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's happening here too is like, you know, find finding good products that you're not wasting money on. Right. Like that it's later gonna turn into recycling material or whatever total way. Um, so did you guys like sell out or what, because when I go to your website, it's like, Oh, we're sold out on this. We're sold on that. So you must have just killed it right on that first icon collections.

Speaker 3:

I think the, um, the icons and stuff they've, they've done super well, but I think just because people are so simple, we we've had, um, a lot of people copy them. Uh, I guess then like almost once a week, someone forwards me a new Instagram link for some like brands who's just copied

Speaker 2:

So original. I hate that.

Speaker 3:

And it's like, you know, it sucks. But at the end of the day, like my, my co-founder Luke puts in really good context. Like, look, we love the icons. We find them fun, but fundamentally it's not what we want to be known for. You know, what we want to be known for is the quality posts that we produce. And like our trousers, for example, like, you know, when we had our pop-up shop last year, um, which was like a long time ago, um, for the Scottish Highlands collection, our trousers, which is selling super quick because you know, guys like to know fit, right. And I've got a couple of brands, I know the fit and the style and therefore I can buy that product online, but it's tough when you're trying to get people to buy it for the first time. And like trousers, the staff have been really, really good salads and a lot of repeat customers there. So, um, you know, icons great that good fun. And like the Sunday papers, like, right. And it's just nice that the classic collection in the Scottish Highlands has had good annuity, you know, people coming back more and more. Um, so for, for, for reorders and things,

Speaker 2:

I love your, um, your classic collection. That's like that, that kind of style of shirt, you know, like that polo shirt, traditional polo shirt that looks like that's the kind of stuff that I like to wear, you know, like just something nice. And you know, it reminds me a lot of like, you know, a very well-made polo shirt, like polo brand. Like, but back in the day before they like tuck them with a bunch of stupid stuff I don't wear. But I mean, you guys have, like, I just, I'm excited for you guys because I just feel like you're doing innovative stuff and you're bringing the game back to a broader audience. That's that allows them to be like, look, you don't have to, you know, we make high quality British apparel made in Britain, made in England, but it's, it's still very, very cool and fashion forward with, uh, with a really good story, you know? Like, and I love like, where are your manners like that your hashtag, how frigging brilliant is that you tell your marketing dude, but I mean like, so what's coming up, like, are you guys now that things are kind of slowing down in golf? Are you guys coming out anything in this couple of months or are you like waiting till January when the next big search happens?

Speaker 3:

So we've got, um, we do have a little, a sneaky icon drop coming out in November. So that will be the third, um, slightly different this time. Um, and we're going to just do it. We're going to run it just by the newsletter. Um, just to keep it super tight knit. Um, we didn't want to produce a bunch of them just because I think that right now with COVID, it's, it's smarter just to keep things more curated. And so, yeah, w we're dropping that, um, in November and then we're just going to write out Christmas, we've got a bunch of stuff we're doing from a wholesale perspective that we've got opportunities to look out for next year. So we're finalizing samples. Um, and it feels crazy cause we're finalizing samples like at the moment that aren't going to be in available until like, I don't know, like June next year or may next year, this is all part of the whole fashion cycle that you have to get into. And there's so much lead time. So that's keeping us busy, um, trying to fit in some golf as well around the weather and, and working

Speaker 2:

Golf Umbro. It's an Uranian as he called, it was like, I don't know, out here, I had a really good conversation the other day with somebody too, or they're like, Hey, what do you think? At least in the West coast? Right? Like right now in October we received all of our grass right now. Then we just know all the nice grasses out and this will be this, this grass we'll lay and lie until may. And then it all dies and it becomes Bermuda. So this person was asking me they're from the golf channel. They're like, Hey, do you think it would be less people golfing in the West coast? Like Phoenix and Scottsdale. And you know, because one, because like we get a lot of Canadians that come in, right? Well, the borders closed. So it's like, those two are not going to be traveling down here to play golf because they can't go home. Right. And I'm like, that's a really good question. I wonder, I got, you know, we we've we've for last, you know, nine months, six months, we've been busy as hell, but it's like, is that going to continue with local players? Or like, we don't have to have, are we still going to have that surge of players because you know, because COVID still here, you know, so, all right. And I wonder how that's going to affect the golf market, right? Because like right now, traffic wise, like on my site, I'm like, I don't see my traffic. My driver dropped a little bit, probably like 10% over the last two over a month and a half that's normal. Right. Cause there's other sports on TV and it's winter and whatever's gonna happen. But I just wonder if like, we're still going to see a constant when it comes to golfers golf consumers through the holidays. And then in a January, February when all the new products come out, you know,

Speaker 3:

The thing I'd say is the thing I always know about Christmas is guys a notoriously, quite tough to buy full, present black presents for. Right. And we, we, we see a lot of, you know, wives or sisters, you know, boyfriends, whatever will come on and they'll buy for Christmas because there's nothing better than gifting a golfer, some golf related merge item, whatever. I know that whenever Christmas comes around, I'm just asking for balls or, you know, golf shoes or whatever. So I think that from a consumer standpoint, December's traditional usually quite good. But from a participation standpoint, Daphne is travel, golf, travel like a huge part of the golf market. Um, I mentioned I was playing Scotland, uh, last week and we went up to Gleneagles and we had an amazing time. And three, four of the guys that were there, they then went on to st. Andrews and they were in the ballots to play on the Monday. And the ballet, usually isn't a touristy tough to guess ball because obviously everyone wants to play, but because there's no tourists coming from Asia or any tourists from America, there was bond to vet availability. So they ended up paying the old course, it's an Andrews. Um, and the guys there were like, yeah, I mean, the tourism is just shot, you know, because none of the Americans can get that. They can travel to Scotland.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Like as you really worth for somebody to travel right now, you know? And they was like, yeah. And I w I it'd be interesting to see, cause I just don't know the answer. You know what I mean? I, I mean, I know holiday holiday sales will probably be, you know, stable, right. Like normal. Um, but like, but like this huge surge you've seen where everyone's sold out, I'm almost wondering like, are people gonna be able to catch up, you know, with their inventory during this time or not? You know, because I know a lot of people were having a hard time, uh, keeping stuff on the shelf, let's call it. And, you know, one problem is, is because they don't make the stuff here in the United States. Right. So it's like the way on a shipment from China, which could take forever.

Speaker 3:

You know, even though we produced, like we said, we've produced in England, but we can't, we can't get availability now on resupplying any of our, uh, cotton. So any of our knitted product, because everyone had to close down over the kind of summer period. So they're playing catch up to deliver a bunch of spring, summer stock. So just because, you know, I think the, the trick here is just to say, you'd rather miss out on a, on a, on a customer, then you add on a bunch of stock, which again is like with the icons that we're going to drop in November. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Limited run. Yes. Super limited. Only to your people on your list,

Speaker 3:

Rather leave money on the table, you know, to use a kind of crew time, but risk, you know, risk overshooting, and actually sitting on a bunch of stock that

Speaker 2:

The stress of having all that, like just, yeah. You know, making a misfire, right.

Speaker 3:

It's not smart. It's not smart to try and predict because it's such an unpredictable market.

Speaker 2:

You guys have an, uh, limited edition, uh, icon drop happening in the next month, let's say, or to have, um, yeah. And then are you guys going to do stuff then, like for January, February, like when, or is that kinda like the plan? Are we gonna wait till summer

Speaker 3:

Spring then? Uh, and then we'll have a bunch of stuff over the summer. Um, we've now pretty much now done all of next year, um, which has got a few moving parts, um, to, to sort out, but the beauty of having the classic collection is it's, you know, from next year, it's going to be an always in stock range, um, that we can, you know, that people can trust on to have a level of quality and a style and a size and fit that they can, they can trust. So,

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a constant, right. It's like, it's always like, if they want to, like people just know like, Oh, they're always going to have that shirt. Right. Like if you want something outside the box, right. Or something new or icon collection or something limited run, like those are just limited. So if you want to buy it, here's your chance. We may or may not run it again, you know, like,

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So many messages and people be like, when are you going to restart the icon design? We said it was a limited run, you know? Like it's like that's and I think that's cool. Like, you know, again, it's down to us to make sure that messaging is there. And also that there's even a demand for it in the first place. That for us is super exciting. But you know, we've got, uh, if, if, if the icons were always in stock, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be quite as cool. Yeah. Probably like I said, we probably left a lot of money on the table, but a lot about who we are. That's all Brian.

Speaker 2:

No, I think it's cool. Like it's sticky. I think it's very smart. Right? You're going to have your, uh, yeah. You will have your classic collection, which is always available. Right. And then these items that you do you think are cool. Right. And you know, as you know, they're cool and you're hoping that people think is as cool as what you're, you know, what you guys do, then you'll have a limited run of it. And if it sells out and people want more of it, then you can make the decision whether or not to, you know, do another run or whatever it is. Exactly. I think it's sick, man. You guys, you guys are gonna kill it. Like, I mean, I look at a lot of brands. I mean, I mean, honestly, you've been around for what, 14, 15 months. And it looks like you've been around for 10 years. You know what I mean? I actually to look like you around for like five years. Like, so yeah. I mean, 10 is a long time. So I'm like tennis to kind of not right. But five, you know, where it's like, you're an established brand with cool products. Your site looks amazing. Your design looks great. You make good products, you know, like I just get, you guys are going to kill it already. Know it. I mean, I'd be surprised, you know, like five years now you'd be like, Oh yeah, I have, I know manners are, you know, so good job. Good job, Joe, Joe I'm impressed. Well, cool, man. Well, thanks for being on the show today. I really appreciate you working with us and you know, a year ago, and we started talking and I, you know, you're a big supporter here. You guys need check out manners, golf. It's fricking it's cool. It really is high quality it's made in England, which I didn't know that till now. And like it just to do the rights, the right things. And I love supporting brands. They're just doing the right things. So be sure to check out manners golf. They, the video on their website is fricking so cool. I watched it with him to say this morning, I was like, dude, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen in my entire life on a website. So check out manners and yeah. Thanks for being on the show today. Thank you so much for your legend. The legend that the lens is behind me with the cigarette in his mouth. That's what I want to be someday when I grow up. All right, bro. You take care.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast, you're going to beat me like stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you're winning, stay out of the beach and see you on the green.