In this week's episode, I interview my good friend Joshua Jacobs, the Founder and CEO of College Golf Experience. Joshua played collegiate golf and club tennis at Emory University and founded TGA Premier Junior Golf in 2003. In 2007, TGA franchised its junior golf concept and was the first junior golf program to add STEM components. In 2010, Joshua was named by Golf Magazine and Sports Illustrated as one of the Top 40 most influential people in golf under 40, and he created the TGA Sports Foundation dedicated to developing youth of all backgrounds through athletics. In 2012, he orchestrated a National Partnership with the United States Tennis Association (USTA) and franchised TGA’s second concept, tennis. In 2013, he was recognized as one of golf’s “Innovators” by Golf Inc. Joshua has served on the World Golf Foundation Advisory Board, USTA’s National School Committee, the PGA’s Golf 2.0’s National Building Blocks Committee, TGA Sports Foundation’s Board of Directors, the Southern California PGA’s Foundation Advisory Committee and the Southern California PGA’s Growth of the Game Committee. He is currently a consultant and a catalyst behind the PGA of America’s Family Cup initiative.
In this week's episode, I interview my good friend Joshua Jacobs, the Founder and CEO of College Golf Experience. Joshua played collegiate golf and club tennis at Emory University and founded TGA Premier Junior Golf in 2003. In 2007, TGA franchised its junior golf concept and was the first junior golf program to add STEM components. In 2010, Joshua was named by Golf Magazine and Sports Illustrated as one of the Top 40 most influential people in golf under 40, and he created the TGA Sports Foundation dedicated to developing youth of all backgrounds through athletics. In 2012, he orchestrated a National Partnership with the United States Tennis Association (USTA) and franchised TGA’s second concept, tennis. In 2013, he was recognized as one of golf’s “Innovators” by Golf Inc. Joshua has served on the World Golf Foundation Advisory Board, USTA’s National School Committee, the PGA’s Golf 2.0’s National Building Blocks Committee, TGA Sports Foundation’s Board of Directors, the Southern California PGA’s Foundation Advisory Committee and the Southern California PGA’s Growth of the Game Committee. He is currently a consultant and a catalyst behind the PGA of America’s Family Cup initiative.
Today we play golf.
Speaker 2:Let me show you how we do it in the pros. Welcome to Behind the Golf Brand podcast. I never missed with the Seven Iron, a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My
Speaker 3:Friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course, I lived on the driving rein
Speaker 2:From Pro Talk . You should learn something from each and every single round. You play to fun from on and off the green. Why would
Speaker 4:You play golf if you don't play it for money?
Speaker 2:Just let me put the ball in a hole. This is Behind the Golf Brand podcast with Paul Libert tore .
Speaker 5:What's up guys? Welcome to the Behind the Golf Brand podcast. This week I had my good friend Joshua Jacobs from the College Golf Experience. I've known Joshua for, I don't know, probably like a year and a half now. We met at PGA show finally, and what he's doing is, so, I don't know , remarkable, to be quite honest. 'cause no one's doing this. And it really blew my mind as to what's going on in the college golf world and how to get your child into college golf and like how many misnomers are out there and misunderstanding. So it's really cool to have on the show, kind of talk about what they're doing at college, golf experience, kind of how this whole thing works. But , uh, so welcome to the show. Thanks,
Speaker 6:Paul . What, what number PGA show will this be for you? Coming up in , uh, in January?
Speaker 5:It'll be three. I the first one. Yeah, I haven't done that many. I went to the one right before Covid , like that one right before Covid , and then I went last year. I think it'll
Speaker 6:Be 18 . I think it'll be 18 for me this year . Holy
Speaker 5:Crap , dude. That's a lot of ,
Speaker 6:It's
Speaker 5:Like I just run around the whole time. It's all I do. And like the first year I went, I tried to like, like see everybody I knew and it was like almost impossible. And then I felt like a jerk. So then I was just like, okay, well the people I really wanna see, I'll, I'll schedule time or like the brands that have new stuff coming out, I'll like get there for sure first. And then Gold Meander, I guess is a better way of saying it and trying to find,
Speaker 6:I I think that they should move it back. I know it sounds crazy, but I think that they should move it back to October, November because in the past, all the brands used to release their lines at the PGA show and now those lines have already been released for months. I think if you move it back. And I, I actually, yeah , I don't know if, I don't know if Frisco, obviously PGA moved to Frisco, but I think if you made it centrally located like in Dallas, that would be easier for everyone to get to. Even the international people. Orlando's
Speaker 5:Far, dude, I'm sorry. It's like the opposite corner of the United States from where I live. So it's like ,
Speaker 6:Yeah , me , well, me too. I'm in LA so I I I wish that they would move it to like October, November. Let's bring back the power of the show that all the big brands are introducing next year's lines at the show. And then, and then it'll, it'll make it so it , it won't force people, but I think you'll get a lot greater attendance than what's been going on because at this point it's just a , it's , it's kind of just a hit and giggle. But in the past when they were introducing, you know, the new lines for the new year, like people were forced to go, you're forced to go and see those lines and, and , and place your orders there. So, I don't know , my 2 cents,
Speaker 5:It , it's interesting too 'cause like, you're right, I mean, all the driver manufacturers, like they've already announced, like they're gonna announced their stuff in the next like couple weeks, most of them . And like, unless you're Titleist, you'll do it in the middle of the summer or whatever, you know, it's so , it's like, it's kind of like, oh, the new drivers are out, we get to see them. But by that point, everyone's, all the YouTubers have already tested 'em out there already articles written on 'em . It's like, okay, big deal. I , I think what's cool is with the tech side of it, because like Rapsodo launched there too , you know this in February. And like, I think it's cool because tech is keeping everyone, tech keeps their mouth shut, you know, and like <laugh> until they're ready to launch and you don't see that with the club people or the balls. I don't know, I just, I think you're right. Honestly,
Speaker 6:I think you're right . Yeah , I I I just think you get a bigger, bigger reception a little bit earlier, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. Tech is different than hard and soft goods, that's for sure.
Speaker 5:Where are you located? You're in la I'm
Speaker 6:In LA Man .
Speaker 5:Did you grow up there or What?
Speaker 6:I did. I grew up in LA and then I, I played junior golf in Southern California. I went to Emory University in , in Atlanta for, for college. Um, left college was producing live television at Fox Sports. And then went, actually got hired away for a technology company, realized I didn't wanna be in production anymore, went to the business side and helped start up a tech company and then got hired away by a client in New York, was in Hoboken, New Jersey, watched nine 11 and was there for that. Yep . I saw, saw the second plane go in and about five months later wanted to come home to LA and just, just had that innate sense of family came home. And I , I was also a basketball player growing up in addition to a golfer. So found the , at two weeks before the high school season was the start, ended up being an assistant coach , uh, at a, at a, at a girls high school program in a gura . And , and , and the head coach resigned in the middle of the year. So I ended up coaching both teams for, for two years. And it was fascinating. And, you know, at that time I started TGA, which was my first junior golf company, very introductory level after school programs at schools, elementary schools, pre-K churches, temples, community centers, et cetera. Then you focused on, you know, that introductory, that first step into, into golf and then you get 'em to the , to the golf course, you get 'em into camps and the recreational camps. And we kind of made a business model out of it. And by the time we were done with it, we had, you know, about 3,400 programs across the country and ended up hitting over a million kids and ended up selling that in 2021 in September. But, you know, college golf experience was kind of born in, I would say March of 2021. So here we are now. Man. That's crazy,
Speaker 5:Dude.
Speaker 6:That's
Speaker 5:It . Well thanks would be on the , thanks for being on the show. I got all my , all my answers. Uh , you did , thanks. Oh no,
Speaker 6:I've got, I've got some pretty awesome stories, man. I mean, I was working with Keith Oberman and Chris Meyers at , you know, when , when Fox was trying to compete with SportsCenter back in the day. And it , it , it was a great life though. I mean, just to be really honest, like I would, you , you , you would work from three to 11, three to 12 o'clock at night and I'd wake up and I'd practice golf. I, you know, had an amateur career as well and I'd wake up, you wake seven , eight, whatever, and I'd go practice golf and play and have lunch and go to work and watch sports and produce sports and it was awesome. It was, it was. So
Speaker 5:What , how'd you get in ? So like how you , did you graduate from Emory or No, you didn't .
Speaker 6:Oh yeah , yeah . I graduat
Speaker 5:You . Alright . So you graduated from Emory. What was your degree in Emory?
Speaker 6:Uh, economics and business with a minor in history.
Speaker 5:Then. How'd you get into production?
Speaker 6:It's a really funny story. So I've always loved sports, always been around sports. Um, you know, my dad growing up was a pediatrician in LA so I always, you know, merged kids in sports. He was also a basketball coach. I was fortunate. And you're
Speaker 5:A Lakers fan?
Speaker 6:No, we've actually had Clippers season seats for over 40 years and in the new stadium. So just to give an idea of how long my family's been there, it's hilarious story. We had the seventh overall pick in the new stadium for seats.
Speaker 5:Holy crap, dude. So
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I mean, I think, I think crypto or Staples, whatever people are calling it these days, a little tired, you know, it's not their own. And it's also, you know, the new stadium's 15 minutes from me right next to SoFi. So it's, it's great.
Speaker 5:Oh , you live by SoFi over there by the airport? Kind of ?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I live in Playa Vista.
Speaker 5:Oh , okay, cool. So ,
Speaker 6:So for me it's, you know , my , my my my dad was, you know, he had a , had a lot of <laugh>, he had a lot of people he took care of. He had a private practice in, in the San Fernando Valley. And one of 'em was Ron Pitts, who was the former player and you know, Ben Fox announcer. And he helped get me an internship my summer, I think it was summer of between , uh, junior and senior year. And then they offered me a job straight outta college for 26 or $28,000 a year. 'cause if you're gonna get into the sports world, there's no money in production to start. And I was like, all right , you know, I'll live a , I'll live good life, be able to play some golf, you know, live at home for a year, whatever, save some money and
Speaker 5:You have my master's degree.
Speaker 6:No, no, no, no , no. Higher education for me. I feel like I've gotten , uh, throughout, throughout, you know , starting in 2003 and then franchising it in 2006 and then another franchise in 2012. I feel like I got my my my MBA and entrepreneurial degree. So I feel like I'm all right at this point.
Speaker 5:You only learn by doing, dude. It's all theory. That's what I feel like, like, you know . Yeah, I think that
Speaker 6:There's certainly an education. I think that there's some some basis in infrastructure that you can learn, but until you put it into, like you said, until you do it and you put it into real , until
Speaker 5:You lose money, until you lose money and you like learn from that and you like figure out a better way of doing it or you have a problem, it's like, oh, that's how it works. Well, theoretically, yeah, that's how it works, but that is not how it works . Like, you gotta live through that and Yeah ,
Speaker 6:I mean, no matter what people think of, of Musk, right? I mean, I saw a great video of him the other day about what it's like, what it feels like to start a company and it resonated, you know, a lot with me. I mean, I can tell you stories during 2004, 2005, I mean, as we were expanding, struggling to make payroll , like the whole, the whole gamut of a startup , right? Yeah.
Speaker 5:The stress of it. Like, yeah ,
Speaker 6:Started , started in one room in an apartment in LA where three of us were working out of , you know, it's not, I mean this is , this is, you know, 2003 and we weren't even a tech company, so obviously. So it's, you know, once you live through that, you get a great sense of, of who you are and what you're made of. And you know, you'll learn a lot along the way, the ups and downs and the way I like to describe as anyone who's looking to start a business, you know, there's gonna be peaks and valleys when you start, and the further along you go, the lower those peaks and the, you know, the, the, the lower the , the higher those valleys get. So it kind of evens out for you. So, but it takes a ton of work to get there. A ton and
Speaker 5:And time, right? And a lot of time. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I mean it's, you know, you gotta get lucky I think with, with college golf experience, CGXI mean, we're, I think the timing is right for what we have. And I think that, you know, we found a void in the industry and it , it kind of was presented to me by some industry folk to start. And, but yeah, it's, it's gonna take some time for sure. As, as anything does. So
Speaker 5:You got a job as a product in production back in LA Yeah . And then everything worked out, like you were closed to home, you were making $26,000 a year or whatever, and then like, how long were you there doing that for?
Speaker 6:I was there for almost three years and then got started. This tech company. My cousin asked me to help her start. What did,
Speaker 5:What did the tech do? What did the tech company do?
Speaker 6:It was <laugh>, God , I haven't spoken about this in so long. It was a a, a screen company. So it was, it was a polymer technology that could mold into any shape and had properties that made it the brightest screen in, in the , in the world at time, the lumens that were coming off of it. So like a
Speaker 5:TV screen?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so that was the OEMI don't think the company, I was only with the company for about nine months when I got hired by one of our customers, but yeah, it was, it , it could OEM to it TV screen, but imagine like crazy trade show boots with curved
Speaker 5:Screen . Oh, like a real , yeah, back then too, when there was like LPs and like, yeah . Oh , you know , all like flat screen was like, not that, you know , common like it was like a Sony turn , Itron, you know, or something.
Speaker 6:Absolutely. And the company was called Lumina, and I mean, there were some good people there. I learned a lot about, you know, just starting out in a business. So that was that , you know, that I , I bet you that gave me a little infrastructure for what I was doing with, with TGA in 2003. But, but yeah, no, it , it was an interesting technology. I mean, I, I remember being on the set of embassy sports and they're like, Hey, can we curb it like this to fit our set and can we make it into a basketball and project on, like, it was in the end, when I look back at it, if you don't get to the OEMs, you're probably not gonna have a massive business. And they ended up not having a massive business. So yeah , I mean, a great product, just not necessarily the wrong time, just not sure. They, they , they saturated well ,
Speaker 5:Even , I mean, yeah, back then, I mean, there was no social media, so like, no one's ever gonna see it. It's like, you know, you go from one place to the next trying to, you're just, you're just trying to sell it really to like,
Speaker 6:Yeah. And you gotta go door to door . I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it was, it how sales , it was quite an , it was quite an endeavor. And when I got the opportunity to , to head to New York, I, I
Speaker 5:Beat out <laugh> .
Speaker 6:I , I , I took it. No , I , you know, you , you know, everyone's got this, right? Everyone knows when it feels right and when something might be wrong. Hopefully, you know, people are listening to themselves about that stuff. And I just knew that I wasn't in the right place and, and, you know, wanted to take a chance and learn a little bit more about myself in New York. And was fortunate enough, I had family there and friends from Emory, so it wasn't that big of a jump. Like I was going to the middle of nowhere, but it was,
Speaker 5:What was that, what was that company then? The one in New York? What were you doing there? It
Speaker 6:Was called Creative Reality . So it was audio video, it was almost like an audio video and lighting company show control. So we, we were working on a lot of the nightclubs in New York City. So we built out all the audio, video show control, et cetera . Some shows it was, you know, we, they also did, right before I got there , they had a Foot locker . I dunno if you remember going into a Foot Locker and they had all those lights up in those screens. Like that company did that. So it was
Speaker 5:Good contract.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I mean, I learned a lot from the CEO , Jason Freeman, great guy, you know, learned a lot about small business, what to do, I think in some cases what not to do. But overall it was a really positive situation. Yeah, it was a good time.
Speaker 5:So then where'd you go after that? So you were there for how long? So
Speaker 6:After that, I came, I, i, I was there for about a year, year and a half. 'cause you know, nine 11 and then came home and there was like
Speaker 5:No jobs after that too. Like everything like I remember that. It was, yeah,
Speaker 6:I had my job. I mean, things were okay, but it just similar to, I just didn't think I was in the right place. So came home back to LA and started coaching basketball at the same time. Started this junior golf co , you know, started TGA, the junior golf company and
Speaker 5:GA only in , uh, was that only in LA or that in California or what , what store with that ?
Speaker 6:No, we were nationwide. We were nationwide. And we had international locations as well. So it, I mean, we ended up with
Speaker 5:<crosstalk> . It started in LA though.
Speaker 6:It did, it started at six schools in LA in the fall of 2003.
Speaker 5:And then that was like an afterschool program, right? Kind of like, yeah , afterschool
Speaker 6:Program. In fact , that first fall we did, we did six afterschool programs, we did a couple parent child events, we did a Halloween fun tournament. I mean, keep in mind these kids are, you know, these kids were five to eight years old, primarily maybe five to nine. So we're really serving that really young component that, you know, 70% of those kids had never played golf before. It was neat.
Speaker 5:And then you franchised that out, is that what you did? Or do you
Speaker 6:Franchised that out in 2006, then we launched tennis in 2011, and we did that with the partnership with the USTA . Wow . It was more than just golf. But golf's always been my passion. I mean, I grew up playing tournament golf, played college golf at Emory. You know, that's, that's really where my heart
Speaker 5:Are. You scratch, you have to be scratch, dude.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I don't play anymore. That's the problem. I mean , I think I played, I , I'm gonna prob probably play seven times this year. In 2022 I played five times. For me, it's much more about quality than quantity where it doesn't matter whether I'm playing with, you know, a , a a somebody else's clubs. If I'm on a great course, I'd rather do that than , you know, I don't know . I travel a decent amount with college golf experience, so I always , you know, get to play the courses sometimes where the camps are at or in the area. So it's
Speaker 5:Good. So then when, like, what gave you the not initial idea for college golf?
Speaker 6:So I was talking with Greg Gross , who's the , uh, executive director, CEO of the Golf Coaches Association of America. Greg and I had sat on a number of boards together. I was on the World Golf Foundation board with him , um, not on PG of America boards, but we're on one other board. We were just talking and he's like, Hey, how's business? And I'm like, it's good. I didn't wanna , I couldn't tell anyone that we were selling it at the time. He's like, so how many camps are you at now? I said, oh, we do about 2200 camps during the summer. He goes, well , it's a lot. You want more camps? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, I think that my, my coaches could really use a platform to, to help themselves do more camps. And I was like, Hmm , interesting. And so I , I started looking into it. 'cause I, I found that intriguing and also gave me, you know, you think about TGA right? Very introductory and recreational level of that pyramid. You know, I was always a competitive golfer, so have never You're
Speaker 5:Top of this funnel, right?
Speaker 6:Never worked, yeah . Never worked in competitive junior golf. And I just, I just hadn't, I had done a few things. I, you know, Steve Hamlin , AJGA executive director, known Steve's been a mentor and a friend of mine for a couple decades now. And I brought an AJGA event to my club in LA and, and , and so I learned a little bit about the ins and the outs of that, but overall, this opportunity that Greg posed was really of interest because I, I kind of found three things, right? So the first thing is there is a total lack of education with parents and players about, Hey, what is college golf? What are the rigors of college golf? What's it like to play college golf? And then what's the recruiting process? What is the process like to playing college golf and finding your fit? So that was the first thing that I found. The second thing that I found was every other sport had a platform like this. Really ? Every other sport has showcase camps, ID camps, position camps . Oh
Speaker 5:Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 6:For sure. Yeah . I mean, I remember when in 2003 with TGAI, I actually ran , uh, just a off the cuff event, like a traveling camp. And I remember being at, it's a , it's a course that's no longer there. It's called Rancho San Marcos outside of San Sandy , uh, Santa Barbara. And we're there, and Michael Jordan's there and he's playing with his, you know, eight, 10 people. And they're betting and they're doing all kinds of stuff. And we're like, oh, what's he here for? He goes, oh, well he runs his annual camp in at uc, Santa Barbara. It's like a showcase camp. And I was like, huh , okay. That was cool. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but when I started doing my research for CGX, every other sport has that kind of stuff. And then the last one is the majority of college coaches are underpaid. They really are. I mean, they're , they do so much for, for the sport. They do so much for the , their players. And, and if you look at how many hours they put in versus their pay, I mean, they're , they're outstanding people and they really care about what they do. And so the ability to create these camps and, you know, derive a little bit of additional revenue for them. 'cause think about it, I mean, these players and these parents, when the camps happen, I mean, they're getting information straight from the horse's mouth. They're getting it straight from the coaches. And that's really something that hasn't existed in junior golf forever. I mean, you, you , so
Speaker 5:What's the misnomer, I guess, for parents right now? Like, lemme , I guess, lemme tell you what I think. Okay. And you tell me if it's , if it's , and I don't know, I'm kids that age, like I have no clue. Like if my kid wanted to play, let's say this is my kid's in high school and he's good at golf, I would've no idea what to do. Like , I'd be like , oh, well you play your tournaments and hopefully some school will see you and talk to you about playing college golf. And that's about as far as I go. It's like, you know, like, I mean, I , my kids play baseball. It's like, I know there's like tournament teams and there's big tournaments and all those scouts are there, I already know all that, right? But for golf, it's like, how do you do it? It's such an individualized sport. And it's like, I honestly, I honestly have no idea.
Speaker 6:It's very similar to what you were talking about, right? And that's kind of what we're, we're shifting that we're, we're gonna shift that paradigm in junior golf. That's where this, this transparency of information will come in, right? So instead of a college coach hiding behind a tree, watching you play or walking on an opposite fairway, and they're trying to hide from the parents that are there so they don't get, you know, bum rushed by them . Yeah. It's, you know, tournaments are vital to that progression from junior golf to college golf. They provide a ranking, they provide an aptitude, you know, there's, it's , it is completely merit based . It is, it is, it is your score, it is your rank. It is where you are in that tournament versus, you know, the field and versus the other tournaments that are going on so that it is absolutely necessary. But that does nothing for these players to help them find their fit in what, where they should play college golf. And for the majority of these players, you know, 99.9% of them, they're not turning pro, you know, in college. So the four, these four years in college golf is so special to play. So these four years are supposed to be the best four years of your life, right? So how do you find that right decision? How do you find that right, fit that right coach that right, that right program. And without information either on that coach or on that program, there's really not a lot of ways to, to get that, especially prior to the June 15th deadline. So I'm sure, I'm not sure if you know this, but until June 15th, between their sophomore and junior year college coaches are allowed zero contact with PSSAs per prospective student athletes. They're , they can, they can watch them play tournament golf, they can't engage with them. They can't, they can look at scores, but they cannot respond to them. If they get an email, they can't do anything except in a camp environment. So if you're at a camp environment, you have the ability to engage, oh crap, with coaches, parents have the ability to get this information that they did not have.
Speaker 5:Is that an NCAA rule? What is that?
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's an NCAA rule. So, but, but I think the key here is that YY the parents need to be the hero to the player. The parents need to be the hero. They need to be the ones to help guide their player down that path of finding a place in college golf that's the right one. And so far, there's really not been a service or an initiative that's given them that chance. So that's where I think that we, we come in and we do it through a , a , a number of different events. The first event is an elite camp, which is hosted by a single institution. So a single program. So imagine if we got one coming up in a month with Cal. So you're gonna, you're gonna play with the coaches, you're gonna have a seminar about college golf and the recruiting process. They're gonna treat you to a simulated college golf practice and a college golf practice round . So you're engaging with these coaches, whether you're a parent or player throughout the entire day. But it's just about Cal and Cal doesn't do a, they're not doing a , um, a campus tour, but a lot of the elite camps do campus tours. So you're literally walking around on that campus doing a tour with the coach, and then you're going to see their, their facilities, their practice facilities. And it's basically life as a college golfer at that school.
Speaker 5:And you don't have to , and it's a camp. So like, you could be a ninth grader, right?
Speaker 6:You could be any age . We, we start 'em , I mean, I would say those elite camps, the majority of kids are 13 to 17, but we've seen 'em as young as, you know, 11 or 12 whose parents wanna start getting these kids, you know, in front of college coaches are learning about what college golf is like. It's, it, it really runs the gamut. The next camp that we do is really cool. So it's, it's called a tournament preview camp. So literally the day before a junior golf tournament, we are doing a , a , a day of camp where the college coaches you , you do a college golf seminar. So they're learning all about college golf, but then they're, they're going out and they're doing a simulated college golf practice where they're basically preparing for the tournament. So you're learning how to hit different shots off the grass, around the greens, et cetera. So, and this is right before they're gonna play in that tournament. And then you go out there, you have lunch, and then you have to do course management and strategy seminar, which is, which is also something unique because most of these, these juniors, these competitive juniors, they all have swing coaches, right? They all have swing coaches, they all have, they don't all have, but some have mental coaches and fitness co fitness coaches. But very rarely do you see players that are really strong in course management and strategy . It's just not something that , that they're spending a lot of time on. And even the college coaches will say that is one of the weakest parts of a junior golfer's game. You can hit the ball a fricking mile, but you're not really sure how to play a golf course. Then they go out and they play a practice round with the college coaches. So they're literally walking them through that tournament and walking them through that round
Speaker 5:And yeah , they were really in college and like they're really playing in a tournament and how they need to think and like look at the field and
Speaker 6:Wow . And they're, they're learning things that they're gonna take with them to every tournament they have in the future. And we've seen some amazing success from those camps with kids having their best tournament finishes ever. You know, we did a camp back there, I think it was in March of this year, we did a camp where we had 27 kids of the 27 21 were playing in the tournament. It was an AJGA qualifier and then a an AJGA tournament. And of the 21 of the 12 that were qualifying, five of the 12 qualified. And then on top of that we had like six top tens in the actual tournament. So that type of preparation, these kids that , you know, they're not really sure how to prepare for a tournament and now they're getting it straight from , they know
Speaker 5:What they know, right? I mean, they only know what they've, through experience. They don't know , like there's no mentor, right? Like they give a really good coach, but it's like they have that one experience or that one coach they see all the time. It's not,
Speaker 6:Yep . And then we got, you know, we've got exposure camps that are more about, Hey, let me expose you to college golf and what's that like, what's the recruiting process? We're gonna play a couple rounds and we're gonna, you're , you're gonna get comfortable playing in front of college coaches. 'cause it's scary, right, Paul? I mean, imagine being a junior golfer and you're teeing it up in a tournament and all of a sudden a college coach walks up to you, like next to the tee or you see them walking and you know, they're watching ,
Speaker 5:You know, what college they're from because they have a shirt on. So you're like, oh , that's a college . Oh well USC oh my god, okay, I gotta be really good. Yeah. So
Speaker 6:It's a little, so it's a little daunting. But these camps also make players more comfortable around college coaches and it helps you speak to college coaches. It helps you, you know, if you're around them, it just sets you at ease and it humanizes them. And so whether you're playing in a tournament in the future or you're talking to a college coach about a recruiting visit, or you get a call from a college coach after the June 15th deadline, it gives you all kinds of experience before that. And then you've got our showcase camps. These are kind of the bigger ones. So you've got, we've got , um, Ivy League showcase camps, we've got D three showcase camps, we've got, we call them top 100 camps right now where you've kind of got the best of the best coaches , um, and programs in the country. And we've got four of those coming up, two in November and two in December. It really runs the gamut, no matter what you are interested in, whether you're interested in a specific school and you wanna , you know, go to that school and see those facilities, or you wanna get a chance to know what college golf is like, or if you wanna work on your game and prepare for it tournament and learn, you know, different facets of, of course, management and strategy and, and also get reps in front of college coaches. Or you just wanna learn about what college golf and the recruiting process is like if it , it really runs the gamut. And that's, there's really been a lack of information transparency about all of these things and college golf, and I hate to, you know, speak for a long time, but college golf is on the rise. I , when you think about who's involved in college golf, right? You've got Augusta National, you get a master's invite for the NCAA champion. You got PGA tour U Gordon Sargent just got that promotion of the PGA tour , uh, uh, you know, you got more and more televised events for the men's and women's events. Like it's Oh
Speaker 5:Yeah, I remember that . The NCAA tournament was televised, like I
Speaker 6:Remember . Yeah. I mean there was , there , there's one on golf channel almost every week now. Yep . So college golf is certainly, you know, it's, it's awesome to play, but it's also really, I I think it's, it's becoming more and more prevalent in the industry itself.
Speaker 5:I was like, I was telling Joshua this before, like I had a buddy of mine whose daughter's like really good, like top 10 state, let's say in women's. And like, she, he , she was like this like probably four or five months ago and you guys had already just been here. So he's like, oh, they just, it was like right after we had a , it must've been like in the spring, and I was like, oh, you should, and I think right before I met you and I was like, oh, you should check out college golf experience. I'm like, because he was asking me, he's like, I don't know what to do. I have no idea what to do for her. Yeah. Like he has a daughter who plays volleyball and you know, she got scholarships and everything like that 'cause of team sport. And it's like they can see him at these tournaments, but he is like, I have no idea what to do to help her because it's, you know, it's 'cause they
Speaker 6:Don't have information. The only way there's
Speaker 5:No information out there. Yeah. The
Speaker 6:Only ways that that, that these, the only ways that these parents are being guided, right? If , if you don't have the information as a parent, you, you can't help guide your, your player. You can't help guide your child and that's, you're at a real disadvantage, right? I can't tell you how many people call us up and say, Hey, I'm a junior. I'm a senior. Am I too late to the game? And I actually host an Instagram live every Tuesday night at 8:00 PM Eastern with two coaches. Um, and so I can't tell you how many questions we get about the recruiting process and am I too late and where do I start and where do I start? You know, unless you look at a recruiting service , um, which can be extremely expensive.
Speaker 5:They have that. I didn't even know that
Speaker 6:They have recruiting services out there. Yeah. There's some more general services and there's also recruiters who, you know, work with you more. One-on-one, I mean, those recruiters are phenomenal. I mean, most of the recruiters across the country are , are outstanding, but they're also really expensive. And so
Speaker 5:Was it cost, like what ? Like what's a ballpark? I have no , like 10 thousands of dollars . Tens of
Speaker 6:Thousands of dollars because I think they're all different based on the time that , and , and , and where you fall in your, in your, you know , what age you're at. I mean, I think that they can go for anywhere between, you know , 5,000 to 15, 20,000 a year. So
Speaker 5:Did they get your kid , did you get your kid to play college golf? Like I mean , that's like a semester or it's like a year of college.
Speaker 6:At first when I, yes, but at first when I, when I heard that, I was like, wow, that's, that's crazy, right? But then you think about it, if the recruiter really is , and like I said, there's some great ones out there.
Speaker 5:Well, they succeed, right? You got a full ride at a good school. It's like exactly.
Speaker 6:If you get a full ride , cause
Speaker 5:A quarter of what it would've cost you to go to college and you would've had to pay for it anyway . So it's
Speaker 6:Like
Speaker 5:Way better.
Speaker 6:Hundred percent . And they , yeah , that's
Speaker 5:What I look at
Speaker 6:It too . They help you find their , your fit. But at the same point in time, I think that we're very complimentary to the recruiters because no matter what happens, they still need to get in front of the college coaches. They still need reps in front of the college coaches. They still need to engage with college coaches.
Speaker 5:Well , you give 'em the opportunity to like do that, right? Instead of being like, oh , here's my highlight reel, you know, or whatever, here's my tournament winnings. It's like, okay, that's great, but are you cool? I mean, at the end of the day, the , I mean, it's a two-way street, right? Like , I mean, I've been an inter you both and I , we've both been interviewed before . Here's a story. So when I, I used to be a pilot, right? And I was gonna fly in the Air , air Force reserves and um, I wanted to fly fighter jets. So I flew to New Orleans to get interviewed to fly the A 10 and you only had two slots. There was 30 of us interviewing that for , but what I learned from this, right? It was crazy. I was like, competing , this is like, right , it's like 2003, right? So ride for nine 11 , um, what I learned, it wasn't like if you made the interview, you obviously can fly an airplane, right? Like obviously you've already, you've already gone like you've already made the cut. It's now it's like, who are we gonna pick out of these 30 people? And all came down to is how cool are you and can you fit in with us? That's all it came down to. Because if , if I'm gonna be stuck in a tent in Afghanistan, I don't wanna have to kill you. I want you to be cool. And I think like that's the same way. It's like, is it a two-way street? Is it the right fit? Not, yeah , you are, you qualified, we know you're qualified, you
Speaker 6:Nail you , you nailed it on the head in the way that the coaches, what the way that the coaches say it is, who do I want in my van for the five to six hour drives? Yeah. That , and who do I , that's
Speaker 5:It all comes down to who do I ,
Speaker 6:Who do I wanna travel with ? And unless you spend time with the coaches
Speaker 5:You don't
Speaker 6:Know , they will never know. And the more that the coaches know, the more educated they are on their guests , who they want and on , on who they want . And that's , you know, when you look at what we're doing, and, and we'll get to me being an AV geek here in a second, but when you, when you get to , uh, you know what we're doing, right? These players and these parents don't yet fully understand what the value of these camps are for them and what they, what they do. Like you talk about, you know, not only learning about college golf and the recruiting process to help guide the process for yourself or whether you, you work with a recruiter, et cetera, is phenomenal. But just the feeling comfortable in front of college coaches learning how to play golf courses, it's , there's, there's just so many benefits to it. And by the way, I know exactly what the A 10 is. I, I'm an AV geek myself, love planes, have always loved them . I still , to this day, sometimes if I want to get a little break, we'll go to the In-N-Out by LAX and watch 'em come overhead and yep , that's me. Yeah.
Speaker 5:I'm a dork. I love airplanes. Yeah , I mean, it's fun to watch. It was fun . It was awesome. And it was cool. Like, and then when you're at , when I had the interview, I was like, holy crap, this is the real deal. And I was like interviewing against like F 18 pilots and I'm like, bro, I fly like cessnas. Like, there's no freaking way. But like, I made the interview so it doesn't matter. Like we both can fly an airplane. It's like, are you cool? That's all it came down to. It was, are you cool? I mean, I mean more than that too, but that was a majority of it.
Speaker 6:Like, yeah, I mean, like, like you're saying, and I think you're nailing it, right? It's, it's what's the fit. And that for me, you know, I described some of my career earlier on, I mean, I knew when something wasn't the fit, and I knew when it was. And that's exactly what I, I was on Instagram live and even it was, it was two days ago, and we had a coach and a player on it. The , the coach found the player at a camp she flat out said, which was really cool. I knew as soon as I left that camp, I knew I wanted to play for that school. I wanted to play for that coach. That was my fit, and I'm gonna go after it. Yeah, I mean there's, and I think at
Speaker 5:That age too, as like a , as a , as a young adult, right? When you're 16, 17, 18, like, you don't know what you want to do with your life. Like, I mean, even if it's golf or not golf, you don't know where you want to go to college. I didn't know where I wanted to go to college. Like, I was like, oh, I'll probably just go to ASU or U of a, you know, like all my friends. But it's like, it's like, until you get like an opportunity or see , like that's what happened to me. Like I back to aviation. Like I went to school, my, my undergrads at Purdue and they had like the top aviation program. So like, I didn't, I, I ended up meeting professors from Purdue and they were like, oh, come check out Purdue. And I was like, where's that at? And they're like, oh, it's in Indiana. I'm all screw that. And um, they're like, okay, cool. And then like I went to the campus and I saw the program, I was like, holy. I'm like, this is what I want. Like, you don't even know what you want until you see it. And once you see, it's like, that's all you want. And then like, that's exactly , I mean , hundred percent agree.
Speaker 6:School , I , I looked at wash , uh, university of Washington in Seattle. I looked at UCSD and I had gone to those two schools first. And then when I went to Emory, as soon as I spent an hour on that campus, I'm like, this is where I wanna be. This is where I want to go. And, and, and that's, that's a really powerful thing for, for junior golfers, you know, when it comes to playing college golf, to be able to feel, and you can't do that from just playing in 20 to 30 tournaments a year. You , you , you can't because there's so much more to your ranking. And coaches will say this, there's so much more to the ranking and the tournaments. They are not the end all be all in recruiting, just as we're talking about Paul. And so that's what we're trying to impress upon everyone. It just breaks down so many barriers to entry and, and makes the information a lot more transparent rather behind, rather than behind the curtain. And it gives everyone the information and the knowledge that they need to make the right decision. And that is vital in this day and age. Because we all know in this day and age, what does everyone value most? It's time . It's time. And so if you make the wrong decision, you're going to lose time. You're going to ,
Speaker 5:Especially in this, right? Because like you make the wrong decision. I mean, you could , yeah, you're stuck. I mean, you could quit, but like, you're stuck. Like they're
Speaker 6:Never gonna quit . Well, no, you're, you're not exactly stuck though. I mean, they're a transfer portal and
Speaker 5:I mean all that, but like if , but let's say you made the wrong decision. You don't know it's the wrong decision. You show up and then three weeks later, like , I hate this place and I don't want to be here. It's like, I don't know, I just think it's,
Speaker 6:It's a very, it's a very large decision in a person's life of that age. And the more information that you have, whether it be about the coach, about the program, about the feel about all of that stuff, the more information that you have, the better equipped you are to make that decision rather than getting, I mean, if you're, if if you're, you know, highly ranked on June 15th and beyond, you're gonna get calls from coaches, they're going to find you. But the fact is, is how do you know which one you're gonna play for? And, and guess what you think one recruiting visit or another trip is gonna be the end all be all to you making that decision. No, it's not. Yeah. So I think
Speaker 5:It's a very individualized sport too. Like I was talking to somebody because I didn't play college golf, obviously, but like they're saying that like, you know, you only can play so many people out on the , on the course or in a tournament, right? Everyone doesn't get to play, is that right?
Speaker 6:No, there's only, there's five spots, you know, for the most part, I mean, there's five, five spots, four count, and there's usually, you know, depending on the division and what they've got, you know , they've got a head coach and assistant coach and coach . It's an individualized sport. But there are, you know, the , the great part about college golf is the team aspect. It's, it's, it's really special. You know, it's not that many times in, in professional golf, do you see that? Right? President's Cup, Ryder Cup, Solheim Cup , yeah . I mean it's, it's not a lot. And I think that a lot of people are calling for more team, but it's, it's easier said than done, let's put it that way.
Speaker 5:So then how did this work? So then like how many, how many , uh, showcases are you having or how many events a year right now? And where are they at? Usually
Speaker 6:2022 , we ran, I think 28, 29 camps. This year we'll run close to 60, and then next year we'll put on, we're thinking about 125 to 135 . But
Speaker 5:That also , they're all across the us right?
Speaker 6:They'll be all across the US and now we're getting calls internationally as well. So we're looking at England, Hong Kong, New Zealand, maybe, or Australia, Canada and then Mexico. That's where we're looking for 2024.
Speaker 5:So then how do you pick the courses to go to? Like how do, like, how does, like how does this work? Like I not , I mean, on your side, not how parents do, but like, do you do like you have to figure out the course to book out like the entire weekend, or how does that work? I have no idea. Yeah.
Speaker 6:So if, for the elite camps, the camps, the division camps, normally the coaches, they , they'll host it at one of the courses that they play on, right? That the team plays on. So that's pretty easy to figure out with them. Yeah . Then the tournament preview camps, you know exactly what course you need to be at because that's the course that the , that the tournaments,
Speaker 5:Whatever tournament's gonna be at two months from now or
Speaker 6:Whatever , those two , then you've got your exposure camps and your showcase camps that we put on. And those run the gamut, you know, normally that's some, some give and take with the courses that we're gonna be working with. So yeah, I mean, I, I, I'd say that overall courses have been really welcoming of us because we're not like a tournament where, number one, we don't have to shut the course down. It's not like that, you know, our, our average event has 32 to 36 players that's, you know, eight to nine tee times that we need to find, and then we add the f and b component in for them. So we, whether it's at a private facility or a public daily fee, whatever it is, everyone can still exist at that course and, and do their normal routine, you know, except for those, yeah ,
Speaker 5:You're not gonna hold them up. No . You're not gonna be like, oh, we got the entire key sheet, sorry, you can't tee off till three o'clock. They'd be like,
Speaker 6:And yeah , and , and all these are competitive golfers. So, and they're
Speaker 5:<crosstalk> they're not crappy. It's not some like turn like, you know, whatever training school for a weekend or something. You guys all suck. It's like,
Speaker 6:And , and they're playing with the coaches, so the coaches help move them along and they know the drill. So it's
Speaker 5:The profess Yeah, they're young professionals at it. Like they know what they're doing. It's not pretty
Speaker 6:Much, I mean, if you think about it, co coaches do so much for the players academically, support wise . You know, they, they give them the platform, they give them the tools to succeed at a really high level and they take care of so much stuff for the players. And at the tournament, you know, during the round, they're basically caddies. I mean, they're walking around with their team and they're working with them mentally working on, you know, shot selection working. So I, they are the ideal partner to run these camps with. And the GCAA, our endorsement from the Golf Coaches Association of America has been vital to our success . You know, we've been fortunate.
Speaker 5:It's validation, right? It's like you're helping them and they are really grateful and wanna do it with you, right? Yeah . It's not like, oh, you're making money off us or like, you know, it's nothing like that. It's like finally we have a way of like getting out there to more people without having to like figure it out by ourselves for one thing. Right. In our state or our local course or
Speaker 6:Something. Yeah . And I think a lot of college coaches wish that the players had more education and more knowledge in the parents on college golf and the recruiting process coming in. So I think that it's kind of a, a nice, a nice match, but we've been fortunate enough, you know, we're looking at, you know, in really impacting more players by not only the number of camps that we're running, but also the level and the value of those camps. So we've, we've been fortunate enough to bring on some great partners in Adidas Golf and Clipped , I'm not sure if you've heard about Clipped is a , it's a new, you know, game improvement technology and it's sweeping through college golf and they just got the, got the NCAA rights to, to host ranking and scoring, which is actually a huge deal going on right now in college golf. So , uh, we had our partnership with them before that happened. So I just feel pretty confident in our, in our, in our partnership there and to be able to derive value for players and, and parents. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 5:It's just funny 'cause like, like when you're talking, I was just , I just googled like college golf, right? <laugh> just to see what comes up and like, you know, because I'm, I'm thinking, okay, I'm a dad and I have a kid and I want to , or whatever, I want to get him in golf. So it's like I'm looking and it's like, okay, it's the NCAA stuff, all the big, you know, articles from like golf week and whatever, and then it's like, you still don't know anything about college golf 'cause it's about what's going on until you hit you and you guys are in the top 10, right? And you're the last one. It's like golf camps with college golf coaches and it's like, oh, thank God, right? Because everything else is just like, it's all just , do
Speaker 6:You see is know funny , I haven't, I haven't googled that in a while, but do you see , um, the college golf guide there? College golf.com ? Um,
Speaker 5:I don't college golf.com on , lemme look real quick. College
Speaker 6:Golf . Yeah . I'm just curious if you saw that they're ,
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that? They're number 1, 2, 3, 4. We're
Speaker 6:About, we're about to announce a pretty big partnership with them. Um, it's gonna help, it's gonna provide additional transparency and education around college golf in each program. And it's, it's pretty, it's it's pretty cool. Back in the day when, when I played in junior golf, I mean, all you knew about, the only way you knew about college golf is they had the pinging golf guide and literally every junior had to buy it. And it told you about, you know, who the coach was, what the scores are, what the ranking was . Oh
Speaker 5:My God . It was like on the magazine, like I know exactly what you're talking about. It's like the , it
Speaker 6:Was literally a magazine. That's all we had. And so I
Speaker 5:Remember those . Yeah, I did that when I was interviewing . That's
Speaker 6:Actually a fantastic idea by Rich Brazer ,
Speaker 5:Like who's the person I talked to, who's their information you pay? Like there's
Speaker 6:The telephone
Speaker 5:Call . Yeah , there's the phone number . There was no email back then. There's no email . There's the address to send a letter .
Speaker 6:Yep . And that's what you had to , you had to send letters with a, a tournament resume that you had zero idea of what the template of that tournament resume should be. So you don't know no
Speaker 5:Internet back then. You don't even know what it's supposed to look like.
Speaker 6:Yeah, hundred percent . So basically if a coach didn't have , if a coach didn't have to stumble upon you at a, where they're probably not going to, the odds are, and or, or you wrote them X amount of letters, there's no way for them to know about you until now. Right? So it's, it's just totally different. No social media, no email, no nothing. And so that's all about this information transparency that needs to come out. But no, rich Brazo , um, he, he is got this awesome idea and I think it's gonna , it , it's , it's just gonna really compliment what we're doing. And so we're gonna, we're gonna partner with them. We'll be announcing that here probably in the next, I'd say two to four weeks. But yeah, college golf guy , really good stuff. Canceled . It's
Speaker 5:So genius what you're doing. Like seriously, like, I mean, there was such a need and like you don't realize, is it , I mean, you prob I mean, you already had the experience with you , with what you had before but like, unless you were a parent, right? Like, and all of a sudden you had that problem, like how would you have ever have known that even exists? You've been like, oh , I , whatever. You know, like it's, it's obscure, but it's not, unless you're in that position of a parent or a junior golfer trying to get into college. 'cause you might think back on when I did it back in the nineties, it was different. Well, yeah, no kidding. There was no internet back then. So it's like, well , yeah ,
Speaker 6:What fascinated me about this is that, you know, when I did the initial research that I described earlier, like every other sport has it. I mean, literally it exists in every other sport. Yeah . And so the ability to provide that opportunity for players and parents and coaches and, you know , it's very rare in the world that we live in now, that you can kind of get, you know, you talk about win-win, right? Talk about a win-win. And like on our case, you've got a win-win win and the triangle, as you know, players, parents, and coaches. Cool . Yeah . I'd also like to say courses are involved in that and then, and then partners and sponsors, because the value proposition of what we're doing is, is is immense no matter who you are. I mean, it's, we'd like to think it's a lot . We like to think we're helping people. I mean, we've already had probably over 50, it's right around 50 now. Players who have, who have found their fit or playing , who are playing college golf because of these camps. And we're just getting started. So I think it's , uh, I think we got some legs.
Speaker 5:No , I think it's so smart. I mean, so where can people find you? Like if, if they're watched right now, like, oh crap, I wanna do this. Like what , what do they do?
Speaker 6:Website is just college golf and the letter x.com . So college golf , you know, companies, college, golf experience college golf, and the letter X . And then if anyone wants to email me, I'm always getting 'em with specific questions about players and their situation and hey, what camp is right for me? It's just joshua@collegegolfx.com. So door's always open, man.
Speaker 5:That's awesome. Well, I mean, I, when I first heard about what he was doing, I was like, oh , it's smart. But then knowing more like I didn't know the , all the problems. I was thought , oh, that's a good idea. But when you start seeing like how it's grown so much already in the like, what, two years? I mean, you're just starting if you think about it because
Speaker 6:Yeah, we got a long way to go though. We got a long way to go and, and there's so much more that we can do for players, parents, and coaches and yeah, I see that opportunity, but I always try to remind myself that the old cliche, right rum wasn't built in a day and I feel like we've got, we've got some years ahead of us to really make this and, and really nail it.
Speaker 5:Well that's really cool. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. You guys have to check out college golf experience if you have kids or young adults are wanting to get into college golf and have no idea what to do , um, because it gives you all the tools you need to help them . So thank you again for being on the show and I'll see everyone on the next episode.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to another episode of Behind the Golf Brand podcast. You're gonna beat me, the golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you win. Stay out of the beach and see you on the green.