In this weeks episode I interview Robert Winskowicz, the founder and CEO of Sqairz golf shoes. The vision for SQAIRZ started on a New England driving range, where a pair of square-toed dress shoes spurred a visual realization. This idea continued through years of research into ground force reaction, biomechanics and foot movement. It culminated award-winning shoes, now played on tour, that will help every golfer hit more accurate and powerful shots.
Sqairz are worn by some of the most famous and successful instructors and PGA Tour winners in history including Sir Nick Faldo, Sepp Straka, John Daily, Mark Calcavecchia, Rick Smith, Jim McLean, Nick Bradley and more!
In this weeks episode I interview Robert Winskowicz, the founder and CEO of Sqairz golf shoes. The vision for SQAIRZ started on a New England driving range, where a pair of square-toed dress shoes spurred a visual realization. This idea continued through years of research into ground force reaction, biomechanics and foot movement. It culminated award-winning shoes, now played on tour, that will help every golfer hit more accurate and powerful shots.
Sqairz are worn by some of the most famous and successful instructors and PGA Tour winners in history including Sir Nick Faldo, Sepp Straka, John Daily, Mark Calcavecchia, Rick Smith, Jim McLean, Nick Bradley and more!
Today we play golf.
Speaker 2:Let me show you how we do it in the pros.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Behind the Golf Brand podcast. I never missed with the seven nine , a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My
Speaker 4:Friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course, I lived on the driving range
Speaker 3:From Pro Talk . You should learn something from each and every single round you play in to fun , from on and off the green.
Speaker 5:Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money. Just
Speaker 6:Let me put the ball
Speaker 3:In a hole. This is Behind the Golf Brand podcast with Paul Libert .
Speaker 6:What's up guys? Welcome to the Behind the Golf Brand podcast. This week I have my old friend Bob Minowitz from Squares Golf Shoes. A lot of you guys already know what Squares is. You've seen the commercials, you've seen 'em use on the tour. You've seen all the big greats use 'em . And today I have the brains behind the brand and I'm super excited on this show cause we've been talking about this for at least two years. Without further ado, welcome to the show,
Speaker 7:Paul, as always, good to talk to you. Thank you. Thanks for , uh, thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 6:Where are you located?
Speaker 7:We're actually located in New Hampshire. We're about 45 minutes outside of Boston and right over the line in New Hampshire. Windham, New Hampshire.
Speaker 6:Now, are you from that area?
Speaker 7:I am. I grew up in , uh, I grew up about 30 miles away, a small town called Georgetown, Massachusetts. So I'm a Boston boy at heart and uh, where as we say hot. Yeah, so it's uh, um, we moved up here about eight years ago from Massachusetts and, and love it up here in New Hampshire, but , uh, for the last two weeks it seemed like been rain for two weeks and finally we're getting some good weather and I think the golf course are gonna be rocking this weekend.
Speaker 6:Oh, really?
Speaker 7:Yep , yep .
Speaker 6:Finally, right now, golf season's in the , I mean, it takes, you know , forever it feels like, doesn't it?
Speaker 7:It does. Particularly in the northeast. You know, we go April to November and um, you know, it just seems like you have , uh, quite a bit of rain in April and May, and then November gets a little cool and, but you know, we try to get, try to get out as much as we can to make the most of it.
Speaker 6:So Are you a golf pro?
Speaker 7:Oh, no, no, no. I'm a I , I'm a 10 handicap. I'm a 10, 10 to 11 handicap. You know, it's, it's interesting. I, I tell people that, you know, I , I work a lot, you know, and I love what I do and, and which presents a challenge to get out on the golf course. Um, I usually play Friday, late afternoon and Saturdays , um, I don't play on Sundays, you know, so I get in a couple rounds a week and if there's a tournament, you know, then that changes things up. But , uh, but yeah , I , I think last, well I think my average year is about 25 rounds. I mean, I really don't play that much golf just
Speaker 6:Cuz you're so busy with running a company.
Speaker 7:It is, it it , or
Speaker 6:Just with life?
Speaker 7:It is , it , it's a combination, but 90% of it is, is the work is myself and my wife and we've got a four-legged son and so we don't have any kids, so I can't , uh, I can't claim the kids. It's just that I love what I do and I spend a lot of time doing it.
Speaker 6:I think people have a , um, misconceived notion that if you work in the golf industry, you play golf all the time.
Speaker 7:It's true. Um, I met, you know, we've known each other for a while and I mentioned to you that I used to work for Arnold Palmer. I worked , uh, I ran Arnold's golf company, golf equipment company for a little over three years. And at the time we were very prominent and certainly with , uh, Arnold's name, there was probably a handful of courses out there in the US that I couldn't play. Um, we could make a call to the Pro Head Pro and say, Hey, I'm the senior VP of sales and market for Ronald Palmer , and a lot of these guys will do that, you know, we'll send 'em a set of irons or a driver or, you know, at the time we had hot seat golf bags and so we could send 'em golf bags as a thank you. And, but I never, I I never really did that. I never really took advantage of that because it was , uh, I tell people jokingly, I say it's like working in a chocolate factory all day long. The last thing you wanna do is go home and eat chocolate, you know? So , uh,
Speaker 6:Exactly. But
Speaker 7:I like the golf , but, and
Speaker 6:It's like , you don't have time, right? I mean , it's like five hours. So it's like if you're, I play a lot, I guess you could say, but if I'm like out trying on equipment or testing it out or getting a lesson, like that's not really playing. That's just like filming it and trying to get it right and like, I'm not there to like just focus on my game. I'm like, I'm more focusing on whatever I'm checking out that day, you know? And ,
Speaker 7:And I'm kind of the same way, you know, it's interesting. I would say most of the rounds I do is I'll take a new model of shoe and go out and play. I do go hit balls. I go to the range and hit balls with the shoes and get a good feel for them. Uh, check some stuff out. It, it's interesting you say it that way cuz I am very mindful when I play of what my feet feel like, you know, how the shoes perform. So it's always, it , it seems to me now that I think back my head is always in a different place than focused on the golf.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's cuz you're like already kind of focusing on the, you know, what you, what you're working on, I guess is a better way of saying it. Yeah. Um , and what, you know, trying to get better, enjoying the game growing up, then, how'd you get into golf?
Speaker 7:Well, quite an interesting story. As a young kid, I caddied really , my father was a , a big , uh, big golfer, very loved the game of golf. And so at a very young age, I got out on the course as a , as a caddy and I'd caddy for my father. And then on the weekends I would, I would stay at the course and caddy even some more. Really, that's what got me into the game of golf was caddying.
Speaker 6:So was this a Massachusetts?
Speaker 7:Yeah, it was a small public course called , uh, fire Corners Golf Course. And I would get up there early in the morning, my file would get up there early and we'd get done maybe about 11 or 12. And I would stand around and a guy who was going out at 1201 would say, Hey, I need a caddy. And I think it was for $5. I used to carry the bag for 18 holes.
Speaker 6:There was a lot of money back then though.
Speaker 7:It was, you know , uh, I , I remember those days and as
Speaker 6:A kid too, you're like, I'm rich
Speaker 7:<laugh> . Yeah, it was, it was, you know, and I had a , uh, some guys that I'd always caddy for. It was always fun and they'd gimme a little extra, but it, it was something that introduced me to the game par , particularly the competitive side of the game. And then obviously from there I started to play, you know, I was taught pri primarily through my father and just watching the game and being up close and personal caddying. So , uh, yeah, that was , uh, some time ago. So you
Speaker 6:Go up, you grew up playing golf. Were you on , like , on the golf team or anything like that? Or you just like played for fun?
Speaker 7:Yeah, when I went to college, I went to a small school up in , uh, Maine called Husson. It was called Husson College at the time. I was Husson University, I played Husson University, I played on the golf team and up there in Maine. Um, it was , uh, very limited season. I think we played for about a month and a half, two months, you know, because of , uh, the school
Speaker 6:So far north.
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah. And the snow on the ground. But yeah, and I , like I said, I was always right around a nine to a 12 handicap in that, not always, but j just generally stayed in that. I was not a great golfer. I was, I always had the distance. I was a , a long driver of the ball and I always hit the ball high and long. Short game is terrible. Putting is okay, but I, I was, I, I could stripe an eye and , and a driver. You know, I'm, I , I love playing it, playing the game. I love playing in events with a partner. If I'm paired up with somebody who's a three or four handicap, you know, I'll go up and have a couple of bad holes and, and they'll be right there. So , uh, I, I really enjoy those type of events.
Speaker 6:All right . So you graduated from college and then what did you do? Did you go get a job at Arnold Palmer, or?
Speaker 7:No, I went to the consumer goods industry and for, for a number of years I worked for this company called Alberto Culver at the time. Um , a good friend of mine. Oh , I developed a friendship with a gentleman who was the vice president there, and he left and went to work for , uh, McGregor Golf . And I got a call . What
Speaker 6:Did that , what did that company do? The one , the El Alberto one ,
Speaker 7:Uh , they were a consumer goods company. They had a whole variety of different businesses. They had deal five shampoo and all of that stuff .
Speaker 6:Oh, wow. Wow . Yeah . Plus they ,
Speaker 7:Plus they, so I used to sell food drug and mass merchandiser as a sales guy. And , uh, but they had a bunch of other house household products and food products. But this gentleman, John McNulty called me one day and said, look, and I'd like you to come work for me at McGregor Golf. And this was , uh, early January. And , uh, I was a little unsure at the time. And, and, and so he said, look, I'm gonna send you a ticket. I'd like you to come to the PGA Show. And I walked into the PGA Show and I walked into that room and I said, I don't care what he pays me, I'm going to work for that company. And I went to work for McGregor Golf . That was my first foray into the , uh, into the golf business.
Speaker 6:What year was that?
Speaker 7:Oh boy. I think that was 1995. Yeah . Okay . My memory is 95, 96 . And then I was there for , uh,
Speaker 6:McGregor. Yeah ,
Speaker 7:McGregor for four, four or five years maybe. And then I got a call one day.
Speaker 6:What were you doing at McGregor?
Speaker 7:I was running the eastern half of United States , um, for sales. Yep . Yep . I managed , uh, I think at the time, maybe about 15, 20 , uh, independent reps. And then I would call on all of the major headquarters like Nevada, bobs of the world. At the time. There was Summit in Springs down in Pennsylvania, but I would call on all the major off course retailers. And at that time, really, people were just starting to get into, I , into the sporting goods world, selling into sporting goods for the most part. I handled the off course and I managed on course rep group, so
Speaker 6:The guys, the independent rep groups that would go out to all the pro shops and Correct. You know, try to get the sales there. And then all the brick and mortar you were in charge of the big brick and mortar. Yes.
Speaker 7:Yeah . And at the time, as you can imagine, back then, that's
Speaker 6:A lot back then, cuz there was no internet. I mean, that was the payday of internet. So like, that was it. There was brick and mortar and there was pro shop and there's, that's it. There was no online,
Speaker 7:That was it . And brick and mortar was predominantly like pro golf discount. It was Nevada Bobs, things like Summerton Springs. Uh, there was , uh, golfers warehouse up in Connecticut , uh, Donna , Connecticut. And , um, you know, there , there were these chains of off course , and that was it. There was no real, at the time, at the time, an off course was becoming a big play. And then, you know, eventually the , uh, sports authority and those type of people came to, came to life and we would sell them. But I , my focus was on off course and, and the , uh, the independent groups, which were their calling on the pro shops.
Speaker 6:So then, okay, so you did that for three years. I mean, it seems like you just , you kept on like honing your skill, honing your skill. Now first you're doing like regular consumer goods, then you go to McGregor and you start learning the golf industry, which is completely different than consumer goods. And then what happens?
Speaker 7:So I got a call one day , uh, from a recruiter said, look, we , uh, we've got a job as the senior VP of sales and marketing for Arnold Palmer. Uh, would you be interested in talking? I said, absolutely. You know, certainly the name Arnold Palmer attracted me to the, to the job. But the elevated position was also, and salary was also very attractive. So I , um, I interviewed, eventually they flew me into , uh, Atlanta Airport . I had an interview in Atlanta. Loved everything I heard.
Speaker 6:Was that where they're , was that , was that where they were at based
Speaker 7:On , no, they're based outta Chattanooga, Tennessee. And , but it was kind of a central meeting place. Uh, so we met there and had a great talk with the C E O at the time. And he said, look, I'm looking for number two guy to come in , run sales marketing. And , uh, we've got two type of brands. We've got the OnCourse brand, and then we've got kind of the, the off course retail brand and, and we're looking for somebody with that retail experience. But that , you know, that rep management. And it was a , it was a good fit for both of us, I think at the time I took the job and I moved to Chattanooga, Tennessee from Massachusetts. And , uh, whoa . Yeah . You know, and I, I'll tell you what it was, it's such a great town. I, I haven't been back in a long time , but I , I wanna, I , it's, it's funny, my first week there, I , I'm staying in a hotel cause I'm looking for an apartment. So I take my laundry down and my dry cleaning to a place and, and I'm talking to this woman at the dry cleaning place and she detects the accent and , you know , says, you know, from around here, are you ? And I said, no, I just moved here. And she said, well listen, here's my phone number. I'd like you to come over, come over, meet the family and, and have dinner with us one night. And what, and yeah. And being from, from Boston, you know, we're kind of on our guard a little and, you know, I'm like, are you serious? And she said , oh, would love to have you come over and have dinner. And, and, and about two weeks later I was looking at a gym. I'm touring around and as I'm touring around, I'm talking to the guy who's giving me a tour at the gym. And I explained, I'm from Massachusetts, this and this , been down here for 2, 2, 2 and a half weeks. And he said, listen, if you ever want , uh, you know, to get to know some people, have you come over, you can come to our church with us. Uh, that type of thing. And, and that was just the genuine nature of the people down there is that, you know, I had, within three weeks, I had two people invite me over to their house. It was funny, we had this , uh, cleaning lady that would clean the office and , uh, twice a week she'd bring me in a casserole dish. I'd be sitting there at six o'clock, they'd come in around six o'clock to clean the office and she'd bring me in a casserole dish , dish dish of dinner. You know, it was really just the people Wow . Mindset down there. Uh , it just brings back a lot of great memories.
Speaker 6:Just good people.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Genuinely good people. And, you know, it's part of the Bible belt and it really just, the people down there were very special. Very, very special.
Speaker 6:So then how long were you at Arnold Palmer?
Speaker 7:Little over three years. Yeah, A little over three years. And then I, I I, I left and I started , uh, a company, a a a golf co well, a technology company, rather . Technology company with , uh, a friend of mine. And we had that for, had that for about 17 years. And then I sold out. What was that?
Speaker 6:What was that tech ? It was tech or golf? Tech.
Speaker 7:You know, it's , uh, interesting. I, I had this idea after reading an article back, I think it was 1996, and it said , uh, something like water, water everywhere. And , uh, talked about golf balls and used golf balls and how they were immersed in water. And after a while they were, you know, they would, they would deteriorate somewhat, but they talked about how big the used golf ball market was versus the new market. So I came up with an idea to, to deploy within the cover stock material of a golf ball , uh, a color change chemistry, and then also a water activated ink. So when the ball was submerged in water for a week , uh, it started losing distance, the water would uptake. And at the time it was a serline golf ball. So those were very hydrophilic, which means water can pass through quickly. And so , uh, it would uptake water and then start dissolving the fillers in the core of the golf ball. And it would reduce the coefficient of restitution, which is the re responsive nature of the golf ball. So technically it was losing distance and there was no, you would never know, you would buy these used golf balls and you could be buying these lemons and you would never know. And so we developed this technology and got it to a prototype that once it was submerged in water, after three days, the name would dissolve off Titleist or whatever it was. And then four days later it would change color to let you know that it was a bad golf ball. What
Speaker 6:The hell? Really?
Speaker 7:Yeah. Yeah. That's
Speaker 6:Crazy. So who bought it?
Speaker 7:Uh , actually nobody. Um, we, we presented, I had a deal with , uh, Spalding, a gentleman by the name of , uh, Eddie Bender was the E V P over there. And we worked with them for quite some time and we had a contract in our hand and the lawyers were going back and forth, and then they was sold to Callaway. It shelved it. And Titleless said, look, we're not gonna move unless anybody else moves. And the rest of the ball industry just kind of , uh, just kind of said, Hey, when , when , when Titleless and Spalding move , we'll move. Cuz at the time, they owned the largest market share. And , uh, so it just dragged. And, but one of the things we did is we took that technology, that color change chemistry, and we took it to other areas. We took it to the government, the military we took it to, and we came up with a permanent but reversible tattooing that , you know, once you get the tattoo, if you ever want it removed, you hit it with a certain laser frequency and it shuts the color off. So it goes from color to colorless. So you never know it was there , uh, never burns the skin, anything. So we came up with a lot of this technology that morphed out of the golf mindset. And , uh, yeah. So I eventually , uh, sold my stake in the company to my partner and, and moved on.
Speaker 6:Dude, you're smart. That's crazy. Like, that's like, that's insanity. Like I had no idea. So , okay. So like, the military would use it, like, I mean, anybody , it's some , it was like a , almost an ink that could disappear, right? Essentially. Um ,
Speaker 7:Well, on the tattoo it could disappear, but the , um, yeah , the color change chemistries, you can, you can change color based upon , uh, a whole variety of stimuli. And it could be light. So when light hits something or the lack of light hit, you know, the presence of light or the lack of light can make color look a certain certain way. So we, we were painting objects for the military that were black in one situation, and as they, as they came up in the water, so to speak, it would change color , it a blend in with the surroundings. So it was , uh, a pretty interesting chemistry that , um, could, could,
Speaker 6:But , but is it a , was it a one-way chemistry? So would it be able to go back or No, as soon as it came out ?
Speaker 7:Oh , yes . Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Depending on the light source, how much availability of light could change, we could also change it based upon a whole variety of triggers. There's, there's a whole variety. It could be stress, it could be, you know, weight, it could be it , you name it. It could be a whole variety of things. So we changed .
Speaker 6:Was it , was your buddy, was your partner like a chemist? A chemist?
Speaker 7:No. You know what is interesting is we conceived a lot of these ideas and concepts , uh, based upon the color chains of the golf ball. But we hired a big company to called Patel Memorial Institute to do , uh, the initial construction of the chemistry. And then we hired the , uh, former , uh, chief Technology Officer from Polaroid to come over, and we created a whole team. And, and , uh, wow . Yeah , we came up a lot of chemistry.
Speaker 6:Who would've thought, right? I mean, you go from like , that is , wow. Yeah. When did you, when did you sell that to your partner? A little, couple years ago when you start , when
Speaker 7:You were starting affairs ? Oh , no , that , that , that probably was about 15. No, that's not true. Maybe , uh, maybe about 10 years ago. Yeah, 10 years ago. And then I did a small, I got hired as a consultant to come in and run a medical device company for , uh, two or three years and left that. But I had formulated the idea of, of the golf shoe back in, in 2000 and probably 2013 , uh, I think that's when I filed the patents. I had the concept for the golf shoe back then.
Speaker 6:All right . So let's talk about squares. What, how did you come up with the idea for Squares golf shoes?
Speaker 7:Yeah, I, I watched back in 2009, the popularity of these lightweight sneaker like shoes, shoes, like echo kind of burst onto the scene in 2009. And, and I had previously done, while I was in the golf industry, did a fair amount of research on ground force and things of that nature. And, and, and always had an appetite for learning , uh, about the science behind the golf swing. When I saw these shoes come out, these lightweight sneaker like shoes, I, I just thought to myself that, that, that, that , that's just , uh, it is counterintuitive to, to the science of, of the golf swing, that if you can take a, a golf shoe and hold it by the heel and the toe and twist it, throw it away, it cannot, it cannot facilitate the golf swing. And I can go deep with you on this that, you know, as you're on the course and a golf course doesn't really have any even surf . Everything is uneven. So if you're in a lightweight sneaker like shoe, and you're in a , a , a side hill downhill eye , and it doesn't have to be a , a very deep curve, but what happens is your body senses that, and your feet literally shift in those shoes because they've got a lot of flexibility to them and the materials. And because of that, your brain says, oh , oh , you know, it's like standing on the side of a cliff looking down. Your brain says something's wrong . You know, something's going on here and you grab the ground with your toes. And I watched a lot of these, I watched the popularity of these shoes just keep growing and growing. I think the original mindset was that you can't have comfort in spikes. They were like, complete op , you can't have it together. So I, I found that a lot of the, the growth in golf footwear was, was in the spike less shoes. Uh, they first started out as a street shoe , uh, that's what they called them , the Echo Street. And the whole mindset was, well , you can wear 'em on the golf course with the grill room and the supermarket, so on and so forth. I always say, if you can wear a golf shoe that many places, you know, you're wearing the wrong kind of golf shoe because a golf shoe should be designed for the golf course. Certainly you can develop comfort and all this stuff that you could wear it out there, but it's designed for the course. You know, so I I, I watched this, the, the emergence of the spike list , and I couldn't believe everybody jumped in. Well , they jumped in for a lot of reasons, is that, you know, kind of echo proved the market, and then FootJoy and everybody else jumps in because you can make that shoe over in China for about $20 and sell it for 200. So, I mean, the profit margins there are really good. But yeah , then I , you know, they got away from spikes. And, and, and this is the one thing that I tell anybody who will listen to me in golf footwear, if you are not wearing a spiked golf shoe , a removable cleat golf shoe, you are compromising your golf swing. And you are creating so many inefficiencies in the golf swing. And it's been tested out. We've tested it out. And I'll give you just an example is that even there's a study out there called the Pinehurst Study, which was done by Pride Sports, and they tested golfers, and if you are , uh, they , they found that it's about six yards of distance on a driver and up to about 10 yards and an eye in difference between a spike list in a removable cleat. The other thing I , I would challenge everybody out there is, is that the pros today, pros today , one of the common phrases today is use the ground, use the ground. And now how do you use the ground? Where are the pros gonna get more distance from? It's not the equipment today, it's not the club, it's not the shaft that's pretty much been maxed out. The U S G A has been all over 'em for that. So it's not the ball. The ball's been highly regulated for so many years. It's not the ball, it's their use of the ground. And with the software and the technology today, they can identify their inefficiencies and fix 'em , and those result in better accuracy and better distance. So with that said, 82% of all tour players wear a removable cleat on their shoe. 82%, not spineless, but a removable cleat. All the majors last year were one by a person wearing a removable cleat. So what is it? The tour pros know that the amateur doesn't, which is ground force. It is your connection to the ground that is paramount in creating that energy exchange, which ultimately is a reason for distance. Now, I tell, like I said, I , I tell people this all the time, and it finally starts to resonate with them that look in the golf swing, the only way to create distance is your interaction with the ground. So does a golf club create swing speed? No, it does not create swing speed . Does the golf ball create swing speed ? Distance comes from swing speed . The only piece of equipment that you wear that helps you generate swing speed is your golf shoe , your connection to the ground. So think of the golf club as you, well, you generate, you put the pressure into the ground, and we measure that by Newton. So you put the pressure into the ground and every reaction has a reaction. So as you take the club back, you, you take your weight, you transfer it to your, to your trail side , and then it's how fast you can move it from your trail side to the elite side, creates that distance. So it's the energy you create and then how you use it. Those are the two key things in creating distance. Now you create that energy and think of the club is like a conduit. It's like the lightning rod. You transfer that energy down through the club, and that energy is de delivered to the golf ball. So the golf ball just sits there and absorbs the energy, the club transfers the energy. So everybody out there listening to this is thinking that the, the driver is the most important thing, and I can't wait to get the new driver. Well , I'm gonna give you a very interesting statistic, arcos , and for those people that know what arcos is, they have this little piece of equipment that goes on the top of your club and the butt end of your club. It can measure swing speed , can measure all this stuff. And, and over 20 million, they've done over 600 million recordings of, of , of shots. And they did 20 million of drivers over the last five years. And if I was to ask you and everybody out there in the last five years, how much has driver distance increased? And you think about it, and I can embarrass everybody here by saying you think about all the latest and greatest shaft technology, all the, the lessons and all the new technology that the big driver companies are pushing out there. The answer to the question is plus 0.5 yards in five years. So here are the numbers. Half
Speaker 6:A yard,
Speaker 7:Half a yard in 2018. In 2018, the driving distance, the average driving distance for an amateur was 226.4 yards.
Speaker 6:All right , good. That means that I'm like, where I'm supposed to be. Phew.
Speaker 7:Right ? And today, today in 2000, well, this is 2022. In 2022, it is 2 25 0.9. So it's minus I'm meant , I'm meant minus five yards. Oh , wow . So minus five yards we're
Speaker 6:Hitting last as far as we used to.
Speaker 7:That's it. So is that in , but
Speaker 6:Why do you think that is though? Do you think that's because, okay, lemme ask this question. Do you think it's because the heck, or do you think it's because in the last three years, we've had like a billion new golfers come up that don't have a clue and that are new. And
Speaker 7:So every year, you know, when you think about people entering the game and leaving the game, you know, it pretty much just washes out. And then there's other things about altitude and all this, and in the data from our coast, they contemplate the tit altitude stuff and all that. But if you, if you just generally speaking, say that people that have entered the game and exited the game, that it's pretty static. You know, even though it's, it's gone up and down over the last five years, say that's a given. I contend that it's your shoes, the spike, the shoes,
Speaker 6:And Oh, really? Why? I
Speaker 7:Do , I do . Because if, if you look at the tour pros, the average driving distance has gone up every year except for one year, since 2012 to 2022. Why has their driving distance gone up since 2012 every year, except for one year, and 82% of the players wear spike shoes in the amateur market, 65% , uh, 60% rather 60% of the players wear a spike less golf shoe. So 60% of amateurs wear a spike less , and 82%, I mean , uh, 18% in the, in the tour wearer . All right , so my point is, why has the p g a tour increased in distance? And , and, and again, you come up with a bunch of different reasons, but I will tell you that in the amateur market, you would think in the last five years with all of the new metal woods that are out there, all of the shaft technology, the, the golf lessons, the , the all of this stuff would translate into an increase in distance over the years. And in fact, we've gone back a half a yard in the last five years. Do
Speaker 6:You think? So you think it's, I mean, it's the shoes, right? Like it just, they're not getting the same kind of ground
Speaker 7:Connection. Yep , yep .
Speaker 6:Ground connection with the shoe. Now there's been sliding and they're losing their power.
Speaker 7:Correct. And I would, I would argue that this has a lot to do with it. And, and, and so a lot of people out there listening may say, wait a minute, that is just a , a big claim. But if you think about where does distance really come from? Like I said, it's not the club, it's not the ball. You create the energy and it's one thing to create the energy, it's another thing to use it. All right ? So when you put that pressure and you exert that pressure on the ground, somebody like a Rory or a Tiger or a Justin Thomas, if you watch 'em when they swing, it looks like they're sitting down as they're coming, they're bringing the club down, it looks like they're sitting. What they're doing is they're forcing more energy into the ground. So they're generating about 1.3, 1.4 times their body weight. So if they're a hundred and , uh, 200 pounds, they're naturally exerting 200 pounds of pressure on the ground. It's giving you back 200 pounds, but they're forcing 1.3. So with that said, you watch 'em as they're ready to hit the ball, they're up on their toes, it's because the energy is lifting them up. So they create an awful lot of it. And then it's a matter of how do you use that? How do you use it? And the biggest difference between what you create and what you use is postural control. How well you control your body throughout that motion. That is, that is the critical element. And that's what the pros are so darn good at, is that consistently, consistently controlling their body. Now the other thing I mentioned earlier was how fast you can move the pressure from the trail to the lead side. And think of snapping a towel. If you're gonna take a towel and snap somebody in a rear end with a towel, you move it out and you stop. And then it breaks the sound barrier. You hear this big noise breaks the sound barrier. Well, it's because you break , you stop it, you know, and that's what's happening in the golf swing. You get it over to the right side of your right-handed golfer to your trail side , and then you move it quickly, and then you break , you have two breaks in the swing. You get it back, you break , and you come forward. And right before you hit the ball, you break again. And that's why your hands are moving at, say, 18 miles an hour and the club is moving at 120, 20 miles an hour or plus, if you don't think the shoes have any impact on that or can have an impact, good or bad, it's completely wrong. It does. And we've tested this, and this is what we have done. We have tested pretty much every golf shoe out there, whether it's a lightweight sneaker like shoe, or it's a , uh, a structured performance shoe, like a squares a , um, an Adidas 360 or a a a a FootJoy prol. And we can test those and we can see market differences between balance and stability. And that's what why we designed our shoe, is that our toes sit naturally in the shoe with the more less rounded toe shape. You know, it's more squared off, not completely squared off. It's got a 70 mil , 70 millimeter radius, but your toes sit naturally. We widen the base under the ball of your foot. So now inherently you're gonna have better balance, better stability, as I mentioned before, postural control is really balance and stability. How do you, and that will dictate where you hit the ball on the face of the club, center face strike off balance, whatever, because your arms follow your body. And if you are off balance, you're gonna have off off center face strikes. And that's what golf club companies have tried to do over the years, is to, to try to mitigate the loss of distance on off-center face strikes that you don't lose too much when you don't hit the sweet spot. So it all begins with balance and stil ability as a function of your connection to the ground and that connection to the ground. The balance and stability has a direct relationship, direct relationship to accuracy and distance. And that's what Squares was able to achieve. And that's why we make these claims that we can improve your balance and stability, and that inherently will translate to better accuracy and more distance. And we can measure that. There's a lot of science here, Paul, and you know, we are all, everybody in the game has heard about building the, the swing from the ground up. It's like a commonly used phrase. The newest thing out there is using the ground. And the other one is breaking, you know, breaking is that you get it back and you break here, and then you break here. And the wider base in our shoes help you break better, which means more club head speed. So it's, it's, you know, it's forced the, with all the, the regulations and clubs and, and balls , uh, if people looking for more distance, you've gotta look on how you can use the ground more efficiency, more efficiently, and that will eliminate inefficiencies. And in contrast, produce efficiencies in the Gulf swing.
Speaker 6:You first filed the patent in 2013, right? On, on squares, correct? That you said earlier. I was ,
Speaker 7:There were two filed back then. And since then we've got , uh, we've got about tons more
Speaker 6:Of it .
Speaker 7:Eight, eight issued patents. Yep .
Speaker 6:Yep . So was it an initial, kinda like a design or utility, correct . Or what?
Speaker 7:Correct. Yep . Design patents. The first two or three were design patents. Actually, the first four were design patents, and we filed a utility. We've got a couple of utility patents and , uh, and six on
Speaker 6:The tech, on the, on how it works, right? Correct. Yep . The tech behind it, not the way it looks, but more the tech of how it works. Correct. In case anybody doesn't know that's a difference between design and utility, just one is the way it looks and one is the way it works , really.
Speaker 7:I mean , technically Yes. Yep . Basically. Yeah , basically . Yep . That's a good way to boil it down. Yeah . You know, and that's interesting too, when you think about the looks of our shoe, when I launched this, people said, ah , it's got a square toe and all of that. And, you know, if you take a look at the shoe, it's really, it's a good looking shoe. But you , you know, the interesting thing is, I'm, you know , when, when you look at what Elie Callaway did with the Big Bertha , and what Carsten Solheim did with the irons, and I'm not putting myself in their category at all. When they, when they launched the Big Bertha and they launched the first ping ping irons, th they were, they were both looking for perimeter waiting . They both sought out perimeter waiting in a club. And when that got done, that's the way perimeter waiting looked. They didn't have a mindset of how it should look. So what happened was Callaway comes out with this oversized shovel of a golf club. It was this massive head with no hale and, and they didn't care the way it looked. And it was radically different. No hale and a massive head size and ping ions looked like something from Mars . But they didn't care because the clubs performed. It broke the mold of, of these traditional looks. And he didn't let the looks of the shoe dictate the design. It was, the science really dictated the look of the shoe. And that's what we did. All the science told us that you gotta let the toe sit naturally. And even in Phil Knight's book , the Shoe Dog, he mentioned , you need a wide toe box so the toes can sit naturally. Cuz once you angle your toes in, you start losing range of motion in your feet. And because they can sit naturally, you'll have more comfort and you'll have better balance and better stability. So that's where the science took us. And you know, we went out there and we took a lot of crap at the beginning, but, but I told people, Hey, put 'em on your feet if you don't like 'em, send them back. And , uh, and
Speaker 6:That's Oh, really?
Speaker 7:Yep ,
Speaker 6:Yep . You were like saying like, oh , they're not, they're not whatever. They're square toe. And you're like , yeah, no crap. That's the name of our company. Like that's our, that's why it works.
Speaker 7:Yep . Yeah. And, and I think too, when people got the shoe, you know, if you go out and market , it's got a square toe, it's got this and that, they're thinking the old place kicker shoe, you know? Uh , and, and it's not, it's got a 70 millimeters, it's just less rounded than most golf shoes. And you think of some of the best selling shoes out there today. You take the , the Hoka shoe, you know , uh, y you know, it, it, it's got a lot more room up in the forefront of the shoe, so people's toes can sit naturally. And you know, it's all about the ergonomics, the function of the foot, biomechanics, all this stuff that, hey, it's been proven out, not just with us, you know, but other shoes and other companies. So, you know, it is , uh, but we have a patent on it in the golf industry.
Speaker 6:So when did Squares launch?
Speaker 7:We launched , uh, uh, about a little over three, three years ago. Um, you know , uh, back in January was our third anniversary. Um, and , uh, here we are today and, you know, we've won on tour. We're played on tour. We got, you know, Nick Faldo . It's a great story that Nick came to us. And , um,
Speaker 6:What's the story with that? Tell him , just tell us the story.
Speaker 7:Yeah, it , it's, it's really pretty interesting. One , one my phone rings one day, and , uh, gentleman on the other end says, Hey, my name is Jeremy, Jeremy Isenberg. I'm the, I'm , I'm Sir Nick Faldo's agent. And , uh, sir Nick would like to get a couple pairs of shoes. And I'm like, all right, who is this? You know, I'm , I'm thinking a friend of mine's breaking my chops. And , uh, yeah, he says, look, we do a show called the Faldo Formula. He does product testing and he does a lot of exercises about balance and stability. So one day he went on Google search and said, you know, balance and stable and golf Shoe and squares came up, thank God for , uh, search engine optimization. So Squares comes up, couldn't find him anywhere cuz we're sold directly online. And he , uh, he had his agent call me, we send him some shoes. I got on the Zoom call about a month later. And , uh, he, he was so impressed with the results, he said to me, and , and he did an interview on this. It's out on the , uh, the internet so you can hear it verbatim. And he said, I would've never believed it. I picked up six yards of distance, 2.3 miles an hour, my swing speed. And I just felt more stable, instantly felt stable. And that's the beauty of these shoes. When you put 'em on, you feel it instantly the difference. And so he says to me, he goes, listen, I love what you're doing. How can I get involved? And , uh, he's an equity shareholder in the company now and , uh, big supporter. And you know , there's rumors out there that he is gonna go out and try to play the senior tour this year. So , uh, yeah, it'd be good to see him back out there. But again, that's how it came . I mean , and , and here's a guy who's , there's not too many people I've seen in my lifetime in a game of golf that worked harder than him in his swing. And in fact, halfway through his career, he changed his swing. He had , uh, David Ledbetter come in and just completely revamped the swing and went out and started winning. He's got six majors and over 40 wins and , uh, you know, he dedicated green jacket. Yep , yep . These three of those are green jackets and, and the other three opens. Yeah . Yep .
Speaker 6:I think like the next generation of golfers don't understand like who he is, you know what I mean? Like the iconic time when Tiger Woods won, who was it putting Tiger Woods' jacket on? It was him. Right? Like, cuz he'd won the year before. So it's like, yeah . You know,
Speaker 7:Well I've never looked at it that way. That's a very good observation cuz it was really a , you , you know, from one era to the other, you know, it was,
Speaker 6:I feel like that moment in that moment in time, like really showcased the passing of the torch to the next generation of golf to professional golfers. Cuz I mean, they weren't athletes, you know what I mean? They weren't training to be professional golf. Mean they were good and they practiced , but I mean, they weren't like, from that moment on playing golfer, now they all look at Tiger Woods, you know, and they trained to become like a professional athlete and then they play golf.
Speaker 7:It's so true. It's so true. They got psychological coaches, they got scrap , there's
Speaker 6:None of that crap. Back then it was like, you , you're a good golfer. That was it .
Speaker 7:Yeah . They're out all , they're out drinking, smoking every night, you know, smoking cigarettes and drinking out there. And , uh, you know, we've all seen the videos of these guys and , uh, you know, it's funny when I, I, as I mentioned, I worked for Arnold Palmer for a number of years, and I, we'd have a board meeting and I would sit there the night before we have dinner with Arnold and he'd tell stories and it just was just , um, you know, they led a life that did go play golf to go to the bar, have , uh, dinner and a bunch of drinks and then go back , get up and play again. You know, it was a different lifestyle back then. Now today they're, they're on these high nutrition, high protein diets and they're , you know, <laugh> , it's , uh, it's like you said, they're, they're high performance athletes.
Speaker 6:Was he initially on board or he just saw you guys after about a year or so and then , you know, you'd already kinda gained a little bit momentum or he saw it in the beginning it was like, oh crap, because like, you know, I was like, what happened with that?
Speaker 7:I got, this was, we launched it on the January PGA show, the end of January and
Speaker 6:20 ,
Speaker 7:Uh, three, well, three and a half years ago. Yeah, the 20 . And , um, and I got a call the end of April. I got a call the end of April from, from Jeremy. And , uh, and I think we technically we signed the deal in May of , uh, of that year.
Speaker 6:So how, like, who else have you gotten like product , well , step Straka product . Yeah .
Speaker 7:Step Straka who , uh, finished seventh on the Money , uh, FedEx come points last year won the Honda Classic, had maybe, I think eight or nine . It's
Speaker 6:A big deal.
Speaker 7:It is . You know, I mean, when you think of other companies, other footwear companies out there, you know, you can go through the list and look at it last year, what company won majors or I mean, one , one tournament's out there. And you know, if it's not Foot Joy , it's uh, you know, it's really, it's, it's not, it's, it's tough to win out there. I mean, FootJoy has got so many people playing. If it's not FootJoy, you know, the rest is kind of spattered around. But, you know, here we are, we got one tour player and he goes out and wins. Last year , uh, one p g a tour player, you know, we've got , uh, with John Daley with uh, mark Veia , Fred Funk , um, on the senior tour in Faldo , you know, and then we , uh, we've got some, some great young ladies playing the shoe that, you know, we're on the Symmetra and so trying to make it to the LP g a tour. Now it's the Epson called the Epson now . But yeah, so we've got people out there wearing 'em . So it's one on tour, it's played on tour, it's been validated. You know, the other thing too that I'm very proud of is when , when you think of, you know, the , the tour players that are out there, they're certainly not gonna wear it or play it if it doesn't work for them. Um, and they can cause they
Speaker 6:Wanna win. Like this is about, it's about winning. Yep . This is the advantage to win, not I look cool, you know, like
Speaker 7:Exactly. Right. But, you know, and to that point, there's a lot of people throwing, you know, money at the top, 10 of the top five guys out there, tons of money. And , um, but it's interesting when I, when I look at the industry, you know, these instructors, a lot of these high profile instructors like a Jim McClain , Rick Smith, Todd Gold , you've got Mark Immelman, Bobby Clampett , Jake Thur , Taylor Crosby , some of the top instructors out there, all of those seven people I just named all Wear into a Squares. Mark Immelman. You've got Bobby Clampett , Jim McClain , Rick Smith. Now these are the hardest guys to break through . If you think about the Pro, certainly the Tour Pro, he's not gonna play if it doesn't work for him, no matter how much money you pay him. But again, what you pay him and you know, has a direct correlation whether they're gonna wear it. But again, ultimately it's gonna work it . But these instructors, they get no skin in the game, none. We're not paying him any money.
Speaker 6:No . They're based out the reputation. That's all they, you know , that's it , that's it.
Speaker 7:And their , and their objective is to help people play. They're measured by how well they help people out to play better golf. So when I've got some of the , when I've got some of the top elite instructors in the world endorsing and wearing that shoe, that says a lot because these are the guys that understand ground four swing analysis, swing dynamics, and they wouldn't wear it, endorse it unless they truly bought into all the science and the technology , um, that we deploy in our shoes.
Speaker 6:I mean, what's, what's on the horizon for this year with, with Squares?
Speaker 7:Well, we just launched a , a new shoe called , uh, speed Bold . It's a little lighter than our previous models. We've revamped the collar material, the , um, the tongue material. Um, it's a one piece construction , uh, means less sewing inside, lot more comfort. Um, we went down that path and it's been very, very successful. It's a really cool, you know, bold looking shoe. It's got very clean, very classy looking. You know, we, we, we object to putting any real color on the four foot , four foot of the shoe. You know , we don't want that to, to pull away from the eye about focusing on the ball and hitting the shot. So it's, it's a very clean, high performance shoe. We launched some new mesh styles. Now when I talk about mesh, and I contrast that against the sneaker wi sneaker like shoes without our mesh shoe, we figured it out. I swear I'd never come out with a me shoe because again, if you can take a shoe, hold it by the heel and the toe and twist it, throw it away, don't wear it. And we found a way to, to put structure into that shoe, and you can't twist that shoe. So we did a more breathable upper , uh, it's water resistant. Our bold and our speed models are, are waterproof, 100% waterproof. Um , and, but we found a way to do it. We just launched some new ladies models. We're launching , um, very shortly, a a new pickleball shoe we have already put in play. And I've got some major league players playing with our new baseball shoot . You know, we've ventured down this path because in any land based sport, to play that sport, you need to be balanced relative to the motion, and you've gotta be able to control that motion. So that's balanced and stability. So no matter what sport you play, if you're a pitcher, if you're a fielder, you've gotta be balanced. Um , if you are a golfer or a baseball player, you know, in any, you need that ground connection, everybody, whether it's pickleball or you get ground connection. The other thing in pickleball that's important is that the age bracket that's playing, this is a lot older, so they need better balance and stability. It's one of the first things to go as you get older, is your balance and stability. So with our wide base toes sitting naturally wider base here , um, on the ball , under the ball of your foot, it's, it's showing, we are seeing that it's less injuries. Why? Because you're more balanced and stable. You're not rolling your ankles. So again, it's the performance, it's the , uh, the comfort and the functionality, you know, and the, and the, and the cool design of the shoe.
Speaker 6:So then how many styles of shoes do you have? Then
Speaker 7:When it comes to golf, you
Speaker 6:Speed , right? You have speed,
Speaker 7:We have speed. And then you have bold and
Speaker 6:You have bold,
Speaker 7:Well, it's called speed one. And then we have bold, it's it's speed, bold . Then we have the mesh line of shoes, men's and women's. And then women's we just launched, it's called the Freedom Ultra. And these are really good looking shoes. I mean, they're on our website. We just launched them for Mother's Day, and we do 'em in, in gold and silver and, and a black and white. And when you see these shoes, they're just really, really good looking lady shoes. We're coming out with a new microfiber lady shoes. Ladies need a lot more flexibility in the top of the shoe because they generally have , uh, you know , bunions or they , they develop, you know, that knuckles showing up, that hammer that , you know, they've got the , uh, the hammer toe , uh, type. So you need a little more flexibility up in the, in the top portion of the shoe. So microfiber , uh, uh, solves that problem. But the, we've got that and we're launching , uh, uh, a speed 2.0 in the fall. So we've got , uh, probably five or six different models in golf. Uh, we're working on some really cool new technology. Then we've got baseball. We've got a a , a turf shoe in baseball. We're launching a trainer shoe and we've got , uh, the cleat molded cleat coming out. And then we've got men's and ladies pickle balls . Wow.
Speaker 6:What's the difference between fire and ice?
Speaker 7:That was just fun design ,
Speaker 6:You know , design wise
Speaker 7:It is the fire, the fire is really cool. That's one of my favorite designs. It's got the flames on the back and the , the heel. And you know, back in the , uh, Thery cup when you talk about patty ice and how , uh, you know, icing your player and this and that, and, and this guy's on fire. And so we wanted to have a little fun with the design. And we did a fire, which has kind of got the ice on the side of the shoe, and then the, that's on the ice. And then on the fire it's got the flames, the red and the black. That's really cool. Too. It's one of my favorite designs.
Speaker 6:So like in terms of like hierarchy then of shoe , like you have a speed line , right? And there's different styles, like there's the regular speed, and then you have like the mesh, right? Which you said was new. Yep . And then you have like different, like subcategories, right? Like you said, like a fire or a pink or ice. But those are more like styles, I guess. Correct . The main line . Yep ,
Speaker 7:Yep .
Speaker 6:Yeah , just different
Speaker 7:Colorways. Yep .
Speaker 6:Then you have one called Arrow, but are you guys still doing Arrow or are you you facing Arrow out? No ,
Speaker 7:We , that's, that's been phased out. That was a very first shoe we launched with what we call the Arrow in the 2020. And those have been phased out. And , and that's the interesting thing is that when you launch, when you , that was our first launch was the arrow in 2020, and we learned a great deal at the time. You know, I, I said that , uh, the structure of the shoe, we wouldn't compromise the structure. And structure has a di direct relationship to the weight of the shoe. And when we launched, we heard from people saying, Hey, it feels a lot heavier than most shoes. Well, at the time, you know, you had a lot of those lightweight sneaker like shoes, so there was a huge dichotomy there. But when you, when you look at the bracket of high performance shoes, like a Tour 360, you know, the FootJoy Pro sl , and when you look at those , um, you know, we were within an ounce or two of of those. So, but we always said, we're always gonna try to take as much weight as we possibly can out of the shoe without, without affecting ing or mitigating the performance of the structure of the shoe. And we've been able to do that over the years. So we , you know, when we came out the speed, it was less weight. We came out with the bolts less weight, and we gotta keep working on it. You know, it's just one of those things that you're
Speaker 6:Refining, you're refining the shoe is what you're doing, correct ? Yep . The same technology, the same comfort, the same stability, and you're gonna try make it faster or better than what it's absolutely each line , each new line you come out with,
Speaker 7:Right? And we're always looking at new materials, new designs, you know, we look at the cleats, we look at performance of the cleats, we look at the traction pattern, see if we can improve that. Uh , we do a lot of work with pressure mats and, and how much people, how much pressure people can create, how much balance and stability we , uh, you know, and we also test out other shoes. I mean, I spent , uh, a couple weeks ago, you know, in a P P G A tour stores looking at every shoe there. I, you know, I , I was able to weigh the shoes, measure the shoes under the ball of the foot, you know, we do a lot of this stuff. Um, you know, we rip 'em apart just to see the construction of it to see if there's any nuances in there we like or we don't like, and try to capitalize on that. But , uh, you know, when , when we design this shoe , um, I , I said at the time it was the best golf shoe, and I'll still the best golf shoe ever created. And I'll stand by that. You know, we, we deployed a heel stabilizer that centers the heel and provides , uh, prevents rollover injury. Little, little things like our laces. Our laces has pri Yeah,
Speaker 6:I love your laces.
Speaker 7:They've got printed silicon tone on the top of it, so when you tie it, it stays put. You don't have to retie the shoe and you pull it tight and you tie it, you don't have to retie it. You know, little things like on, on the, we, we, so to guss it , and each side of the tongue, so you sow the tongue on either side, and a lot of companies weren't doing that. And what happens when it rains and sand gets on the top of your shoe here, it works its way in, not with our shoe, because it sewn . So you can literally stand in the water pretty much almost all the way to the top of the shoe and not get wet. Wow . Why? Because we sew it and it's waterproof. But little things like that, you know, the, the cleat we chose was one of the best performing cleats. The, the lace, the, the gussets, the heel stabilizer, the quality, this material that we used is, is I think 90% of all sock shoes are made with this material. And when you think about how they cut back and forth, it adds that structure. It's got the right amount of flexibility. It's a synthetic leather that just gives you some really good structure. So we looked at, and we said when we started that we wanna make the most expensive golf shoe we could relative to the components. Um, because a lot of times to keep costs down, you've gotta, you know, settle for second best in the construction of the shoe. Sometimes it shows up, sometimes it doesn't. But we, we built what we believe to be the best golf shoe of a build .
Speaker 6:Well, I mean, I think you guys are make a phenomenal shoe. It's awesome. I mean, it works. The technology's there, and that's the thing. It's not like it's built around the tech, it's not built around anything else, right? It's not like you're trying to Exactly.
Speaker 7:Yep . You know , and
Speaker 6:The science like everybody else, like , and you're not, you're not BSing people either, where you're saying like, oh, you can wear this to work and you can wear this out . It's like, no, the shoe is to make you hit the ball farther that, and you have more control. That's
Speaker 7:It. Well said. And, and, and you know, I tell people too, on those sparkless shoes, as you leave the golf course and you're walking on, you're walking around and you're wearing those during the day, whatever, you are wearing them out on certain areas, you're wearing it down in certain areas. And, and based upon, you know, your, your foot structure, whether you're a varus or valgus, you know, your foot could be where on the outside, the inside. And most people have that varus , valgus deform me . So I mean, you wear, if you pick up your shoes, you wear it in a certain area of your foot, and if you're wearing that golf shoe out other places, then you are wearing it in certain areas. And when you go to play golf, you're off balance, you know, so you're in control. Yeah . And then you're gonna replace that with our shoe. All you have to do is on, on the golf show . All you have to do is replace the spike. You know? That's it. You know, so , uh, again, to your point,
Speaker 6:Yeah, you know, like 10, 10, 15 years ago, there was only, you had regular shoes and you had golf shoes, and then everybody turned into this thing where it's like, oh, you have an everyday shoe you can use with the golf course. Well then, you know, that's been the big thing for the last 10, 15 years, right? Yep . The everyday shoe. But like, you're right. Didn't think about that either. Like you wear those shoes out, going to the mall, or going to the movie , or going with your family or going wherever, and then you go play golf with those same shoes, but they've been worn out and the inside from everyday use when really it's like, that's, that's should be a golf shoe that should be used for golf. Like,
Speaker 7:Exactly. Yep . And, and I, I jokingly say, Pete, if you can wear it to the supermarket, don't wear it. I mean, don't , don't, don't, don't . It's not a golf shoe. You know ,
Speaker 6:I'm gonna wear my squares, the supermarket, take a picture,
Speaker 7:<laugh> .
Speaker 6:I'm like , I had Bob on my show today, and he told me I should wear squares everywhere I go and then show it at the supermarket show . I pick up my kids at school.
Speaker 7:It's not that they're, they are so comfortable. You will forget to take them off, but you shouldn't, you should wear them on the golf course. And that's it, you know, wear 'em on the golf course. Thank
Speaker 6:You so much for being on the show today . I really appreciate it. You guys, you know, Bob and I have mentioned for a long time, and , and I'm really glad to be able to share how kind of squares came about. Now, if people want to purchase squares, like where do they go? Where do they find it?
Speaker 7:We're only direct to the consumer on our website and it's squares. And that's S Q A I R z.com . squares.com. Check us out. Uh, we've got a whole variety of shoes. And, and before we leave, I, I wanna thank you for, for having me on and what you do. It's , um, you know, you're only as good as the guy interviewing you. And it's one of these things where as a small company in the game of golf, to have a forum like this is huge. And what you do to provide us with a forum is greatly appreciated. So thanks for what you do, and thanks for having us here.
Speaker 6:Yeah. You guys have to check out squares. Like, you know, like I said, I think I got my first pair of squares about a year and a half ago, and I tried 'em out, and I was like, what the hell? Because they're just like, so stable. And like, one of my problems, my feet were always like rolling in my shoe, right? I was using an everyday shoe, so if my foot would roll on the left foot would roll, right? And when I came into my, through my swing, and then with the squares, I was like, so stabilized, like, you're not slipping, you're not sliding, and you have more control of your shot. So it's like the real deal and the text there, I mean, like, that's all they, that's all they care about is making you a better player. So definitely check out Square's golf shoes. You know, I can't say any, any more , you know, higher praise than what I've said already. So thanks for being on the show today, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening to another episode of Behind the Golf Brand podcast. You're gonna beat me, the golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you win. Stay out of the beach and see you on the green.