True Linkswear CEO Jason Moore and VP of Marketing Brandon Wallach joins "Behind the Golf Brand" host Paul Liberatore to discuss how the golf shoe company came to be, their growth over the past three years, and how they are diversifying into golf apparel and accessories.
True Linkswear CEO Jason Moore and VP of Marketing Brandon Wallach joins "Behind the Golf Brand" host Paul Liberatore to discuss how the golf shoe company came to be, their growth over the past three years, and how they are diversifying into golf apparel and accessories.
Today we play golf.
Speaker 2:Let me show you how we do it in the pros.
Speaker 3:Yeah . Welcome to Behind the Golf Brand podcast. I never missed with the Seven Iron , a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My
Speaker 4:Friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course, I lived on the driving range
Speaker 3:From Pro Talk . You should learn something from each and every single round. You play it to fun from on and off the green. Why would
Speaker 5:You play golf? You don't play it for money.
Speaker 3:Just let me put the ball in a hole. This is Behind the Golf Brand podcast with Paul Liberatory.
Speaker 6:What's up guys? Welcome to the Behind the Golf Brand podcast. We are on episode 100. I can't believe it's been a hundred episodes, particularly about about a year or actually about three years to get to this point. So I thought it'd be really cool to bring back episode one, like Good Friends from True Links where Jason Moore, Brandon Wallick . I've been working with these guys for probably four or five years at this point. They're my boys and I'm really excited to have 'em on the show because so much has changed with , uh, true in the last three years. Like a lot's changed in a good way and it's cool to kind of reflect back on all the change of the brand and where they're going and the new directions and everything. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 7:Awesome. Thanks for having us, Paul.
Speaker 8:Yeah, appreciate it.
Speaker 6:How's that for a shout out right there in the beginning,
Speaker 7:<laugh> <laugh> . Well, I think we should all pause and congratulate you on a hundred episodes, man. That's just quite an accomplishment. You know ,
Speaker 6:It's crazy.
Speaker 7:I don't know if it's true, but I heard on Instagram somewhere like only 10% of podcasts make it to the third episode. And then really only like 10% of that 10% make it to like the, the 20th episode. So you're like a , you're a one percenter with this ,
Speaker 8:The top 1% man.
Speaker 6:I always need to get it even more view count and then I'd be like really big like , uh, like everybody else. But yeah, it's been crazy. Like, so I don't know if you guys remember like the whole, do you guys remember how I asked you to be on the first episode? Because what happened was we were at the PGA show and I was like, Hey, I had this really good idea. This is PGA show 2020, right? Like when mm-hmm . <affirmative> , the Covid was about to hit and I was like , Hey, I have this really good idea for a podcast, but if I do it, I think we're getting drinks. Oh , we're at top Golf . That's where we were at that. And I said, I have this idea for a podcast. Would you guys would be on it? And you're like, Jason goes, hell yeah, we'd be your , we'll be your first interview. I remember you saying that. And so like two month and a half, two months later, once I learned how to like settle this crap up is when we started this , started all of it. So that's crazy.
Speaker 7:Well , you do a great job, man. We're stok to be the first and now the hundredth ,
Speaker 6:So I know it'll be 200th too . That'd be cool. And then we can like , reflect . We'll all
Speaker 8:Be , I don't even wanna imagine where we're gonna be in another three years. That's gonna be wild. That's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 6:Super crazy. So in case you guys don't know, like our audience, I guess kind of tell the audience who you guys are, right? Like who's Brandon ? Who's Jason, right? Like first of all, I'm already assuming people, most people know, but they might not.
Speaker 8:Uh , my name's Brandon Wallick and uh, I do the marketing here at True Been with True since about 2018 . Uh, so I'm here a little longer than Paul's podcast has been running. But really just get to work on a lot of fun stuff in terms of like photography, videography, e-commerce , uh, all the digital ads that people see. Sorry, that's us. You know , email, marketing, sms, all the fun stuff that really gets , uh, the products and the brand in front of people. So love what I do and it's, it's been a heck of a ride for , uh, what, almost almost five years now, being here. Yeah, it , it's absolutely crazy. But it's been , uh, it's been a lot of fun, so I love it. Yeah . And I ,
Speaker 7:Who were
Speaker 6:You, Jason?
Speaker 7:I couldn't do this thing without this guy Brandon, by the way. Uh , he is critical to everything we do, but my name's Jason Moore, obviously you can see that on the screen. But , uh, started this little thing called TrueLink Wear with my brother way back in the day. Uh, ever since, just been a part-time shoe cobbler, shoe salesman, you name it. Trying to, trying to get our product out there to the masses and help people enjoy the walk. But , uh, you know, on a daily basis I try to run this company to the best of my ability, but that looks like a lot of product development, design r and d, more on the creative side of things, team building, things like that. So , uh, it keeps me busy and uh, honestly, it doesn't even feel like I work, which is awesome. I think they say something like that, right ? You find a job where , uh, you enjoy doing it and you'll never work a day of your life. I kind of feel like I found that. So , uh, it is a lot of hard work that we pour into this thing, but it's a good time. I tell you that much.
Speaker 6:I remember the first time I talked to Brandon, it was like 2018. It was like summer of 18, it was like around July. I remember that. And he was , I , I think the first thing he ever sent me was a pair of true knit shoes . And I didn't even know who. True . I mean, I didn't really know what True links for was. I mean, I kind of did, but not really. And he is like, all right , I'm gonna send you these true , you know, I'm try check out these shoes, let me know what you think. And that was like the very first interaction I had with Brandon . And I , I don't know why I remember that. I don't remember . I mean, I remember a lot of people, but I don't remember why I remember that with Brandon. It must have been like a conversation or something. But, so I mean, like, my, my relation with you guys, we've done a lot together. I mean outside, I mean , I've reviewed every one of true links for shoes has ever come out, at least since I started doing this back in 17. I mean, I've done Trini , I've thrown 'em all. Really what's really cool is I also get, which I love, is I always get the collectors pieces, which I like. I , if you guys can't really see it, you probably can't behind me, but I never wear those shoes. They're on my wall. So I guess let's talk about that. Like, when did you guys start doing like limited run shoes for golf? Was that, was that in 2020 with the green jacket shoe?
Speaker 7:You know, I'll be honest, like year one we did a limited edition shoe, which was like circa 2010. Dude, this is forever. Really ? Yeah , so like right out the gates , we did something to celebrate that little week of golf in April called the Masters . Uh , honored the tradition with a nice green and white colorway and it was a hit and people loved it. And we thought, you know what, this is like kind of a cool thing that we want to carry forward. So when we kind of rekick things off that 2018 kind of era, we started bringing back those limited editions that our initial customers loved. And you know, for us it's just a fun way to put out something that , uh, like you said can be a collector's piece. Hopefully a lot of people are wearing 'em , but they're not sitting on everybody's wall, you know? But , uh, for those that love the brand, you can get kind of a piece of , uh, history and memorabilia, something you can be proud to own and wrap , you know, on your wall or on your course. Um , and uh, for us it's something we're gonna do forever. We're actually increasing the , the, you know, frequency of limited editions or collaborations or special colorways because I think you
Speaker 6:Guys sell out quick, right? Like every year you sell out right away. I mean like right away.
Speaker 7:Yeah. This year was wild. Like the azalea we did in late March, we ordered more pairs than we normally do for it cuz we wanted our wholesale accounts to be able to get it too . You know, we wanted 'em sitting on the shelves at Ba Bandon Dunes and Pebble Beach and stuff. And so we, we ordered a few extra pairs and it still just sold out. I think we were within 36 hours for sure. But really a lot of core sizes go quicker than that. It's like the first four hours and like certain select sizes start selling out, you know, so it's good.
Speaker 6:Was it only online sales for those or was it Um,
Speaker 7:We did some like for brick and mortar stores, like, just so that , yeah . You know, for the first time ever, you know, you could actually walk into a physical retail shop and get one of the limited editions . Um, and we were surprised how many of our shops wanted that product, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 6:Check that out. Look, I just, I just pulled up the reel . <laugh> , look at that. See you like , like I'm fascinated. That's why like doing the live stream , right? So people can actually see, I think got a lot of views. That video did that in general .
Speaker 8:Shoes just , it crushed it. It absolutely crushed it . It was just so much fun. I mean, we always like to sell out quick, but this thing went in less than 48 hours. I think we're out of all core sizes. And we even patted it too. We thought like, hey, let's just bring in some extra just to make sure people get their pairs and they still just flew.
Speaker 6:Well, the detailing on it, right? Like, cuz it came with like the little towel like cover shoe covered thing. It came with then the detailing on the shoe, like the, the backs with the azalea and inside the, I mean you guys hid outta the park with the shoe. The shoe was sick. Like I , that's why I'd never wear the shoe like ever. I'm sorry <laugh> . Like , it just looks so good. Like I'm afraid I'm gonna get it dirty. Like I'll be like you
Speaker 7:Gets in it. Wrinkles and the soul . Yeah, you gotta keep it fresh. But , uh,
Speaker 6:Well somebody wore a , I think somebody wore 'em at the tournament, didn't they? Or I could have sworn I saw somebody . I was like, what the heck? You're crazy. <laugh>
Speaker 7:This guy. You know what , you know, sneaker heads do , do uh , have two different approaches, right? You're either the collector that keeps 'em pristine or you're out there creasing 'em and w Ringling 'em and, and uh,
Speaker 6:Off. Would you really go play golf in 'em ? I would be like, that's like the worst thing you could do the till you gonna get trash, I guess if it's all muddy and like, I don't know if you wanna walk . That's
Speaker 7:What we make our shoes for, man. We make 'em to play golf . Right?
Speaker 6:That's very true.
Speaker 7:It's hard to enjoy the walking , you know , walk in a , you know,
Speaker 6:So the story was true. Like you, what did you and Ryan started , was it 2010? Yeah,
Speaker 7:It was , uh, circuit 2009. We kind of met a couple guys that had this kind of audacious idea of making a comfortable walking golf shoot . Um, and if you grew up playing golf, you knew that you were used to wearing dress shoes with metal spikes on the bottom. And uh , the idea of something natural and minimalist Yeah . Was like pretty exciting to Ryan and I, so we actually continued those conversations all the way through prototyping and testing and creating a brand. And you know, by the time Ryan got his like final prototype, he was like, yep , I'm hooked. Like I'm wearing them in competition and uh, whether or not we have a real business, I don't really care. I'm gonna wear 'em cuz I really wanna wear something comfortable and natural and good for my body. And he started wearing them and we're like, I guess we'll have to figure out to turn this into a business now. And so that's kind of how things got started kind of by accident. Um , no idea where it would take us. The idea of us sitting here today in May of 2023 is just , uh, kind of mind blowing , honestly, kind of humbling to think that there's that many people that kind of resonated with the idea.
Speaker 6:Were you caddying for him then? Yep . When you guys were doing the shoe?
Speaker 7:Yep . So I was caddying for him full-time out there on the PGA tour and live in that circus Carney life that , uh, caddies, live <laugh> just part of the mayhem and the madness. But , uh, it was , it was an awesome time period for us, you know, just he was, you know ,
Speaker 6:He like , you seem like so young, you look back, you're like, oh, we're so young back then. And like , yeah
Speaker 7:Dude , it was, it was a blast. Like it was a blast. We had, I mean we traveled the world together as brothers, you know, for five years and so many memories, you know, just majors and little like, you know, nuanced things of traveling and getting to meet certain people and it's just a wild amount of experiences. So , um, wouldn't take it back for anything. But living uh , on the road for 35 weeks a year is not for everyone. And uh , eventually I decided, you know, I'd probably like to have a reasonably normal wife and, you know, maybe have kids someday , you know, the whole settle down thing. So tried that side of things and uh, my life has not settled down, but it's different than it used to be on the , on the tour. That's for sure.
Speaker 6:I mean, how many years has Ryan been on the tour now? Like 15 years at
Speaker 7:Least? No, it's, this is like his 19th or 20th season. Yeah ,
Speaker 6:It's a long time . He's an old man.
Speaker 7:<laugh> , he just turned 40, you know, he's been out there for a while . But , uh, yeah , pretty , uh, impressively long career if you think about it. Um , you know , never lost his card and done pretty well for himself. So most importantly, he is gotten to do what he loves to do, you know, and year in , year out I
Speaker 6:Think there's a, this is so cool about , I mean, with my relationship with you guys, like what you see is what you get, right? Like the relat like honestly, like you guys are with my friends, like real friends. Like I talked to Brandon probably like at least once a month, but you've also like exposed me to other like not only brands but to other like, events in my life. Like, I don't even know this, but like, it was 2020 and like your brother like got me into the ropes with him and Cheez Rey , the Waste Management. Which like, I was like, what ? Like Ryan didn't even know me. I mean, you know, you might not maybe know who I am barely, but like it was kind of cool. Like, like you just, the best thing I can say about True is like, you're just down to earth . Nice dudes like doing cool stuff. Like that's the best I can describe it. I mean they're very, you know, they're very inclusive letting people into this world. I mean, one thing, you know, they had a , a tournament here two weeks ago here in Phoenix and that was, you know, something I got to really enjoy because you know, I got to meet a lot of people. I may , I met , I met your dad, I met your other brother and it was a really cool event that you guys threw because it was kind of like a lot, a lot of people came down from Seattle to Phoenix to play in this tournament and it was just like, it was a fan fest really, I would say. And I think that was really cool that you guys were doing that.
Speaker 8:It was just awesome to see a lot of people down there that are huge advocates of the brand and just come together to golf and hang out. I mean it was just like you said, I had a great time just hanging out with people after the round, you know, just getting to meet some random people that were huge advocates of the brand that had 10 pairs of shoes that just wanted to come down and, and kick it for a few days. But we ended up getting dinner afterward just sitting down on the table with like eight guys that I had no idea who they were, but it was the best time cause everyone was just so down to earth and chill and just a good time. And I mean, just like you said, it's just good people doing good stuff and that's how, you know, our consumers are and our friends and the brand and it's just, it's all good people. Like there wasn't anyone down there that was like, oh , this guy's a pain in the butt. Everyone was just cool. It was really refreshing just to be around awesome people for a few days.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's like super chill, you know? I mean that's who they can describe it.
Speaker 7:That's the beauty of this thing that we all love called golf. Right? You know, it brings all kinds of people together from all kinds of different walks of life. You know, I loved going and got to play around with my dad at that tournament and got to play, you know, rounds with people that I really admire and respect that also happen to wear our shoes and you know, just like amazing, you know, memories can be made around the sport and that's why we started doing the tournaments. It's not like we make money on 'em or it's like some huge brand exposure play. It's like, it's just getting back to the roots of why we do what we do. You know, we make all shoot a game
Speaker 6:So people
Speaker 7:Get out there and enjoy the walk, you know, get out in the nature, hang out with your best buds, like go play with your, you know, your dad or your kids or whatever golf is for you. And you know, the the competition side of it's important too. I think that's what's kind of fun for the dichotomy of perspectives between my brother and myself and the game of golf. Golf for me has always been a social activity and for him it's been ultra competitive and I love the competitive side and I admire it and respect it immensely. Um, but you know, that's not everyone's, you know, experience with the game. So we, we make stuff for the performance side of the game, but we also make stuff for people that just want to enjoy their afternoon. You know, just can imagine getting out of their cubicle and, and walking in the great outdoors for four hours, maybe tossing back a couple cold ones and relaxing, you know. And so we wanna make products that are for both sides of the game, which is what you get to experience at a tournament like that. The competition's fun and it's like, it's an honor to win one. And like the players that our top 10 in our leaderboard were wildly under par . There were some great players there , um, but there's people that finished dead last that had the time of their lives, you know? So I think that , uh, those events are really fun for that reason. I'm glad you came by the way, Paul. Thanks for coming to
Speaker 6:Well , yeah, I mean of course I'd support you. So you, you guys are having more of these tournaments, so you guys out there listening like, where else are you having tournaments like this this year? Because no other brands doing this. Like nobody. And I think this is really kind of cool where it's like, Hey, we're having a couple fun tournaments. This is just for all of us to get together and you guys can meet us, right? And meet our company and meet our brand. So where else are you guys doing it this year and when are you guys doing it? This year
Speaker 8:We are doing them . So the next one we actually have, it's in , uh, Coeur d'Alene , Idaho, the end of June. It's called the OG Cup. Uh, this is our second OG cup. We did one last year that Jason won that infuriate me. He still got the trophy in his office and it's, I can't deal with it. Uh, but that's gonna be a Circling Raven, which is a really fun course out there this year. Uh, we're hoping for better weather. Uh, last year I think it was like the last round , it was torrential rain and it was like 43 degrees out and it was miserable, but, so we bunch it back at the end of June, so we should be looking at like maybe mid upper seventies this year, hopefully. Fingers crossed at least. And then we have two more coming in October, so we're gonna do one homecoming event up here , uh, at Chambers Bay. And that's also gonna be like right next to our true hq . So we'll do like a really fun like welcoming party up here at our headquarters. I mean, which I , we've had some videos on Instagram about it, but it's just such a cool, cool space. Uh, we've got a golf sim out there, we've got just a bunch of like really fun stuff. So we'll have everyone here and uh , we'll play Host for a night and then we'll get out for some competition to Chambers the next day.
Speaker 6:I might come to that, I might want to come to that just that would appreciate , we've been talking about that for a long time, like me coming up there and like, that'd be the perfect reason to do it and like shoot content and hang out and stuff. You
Speaker 7:Get to play Chambers bait,
Speaker 6:I mean , I know, right?
Speaker 7:Championship course. It's legit too, so
Speaker 6:You have to walk it right, the whole thing. There's no carts. That's what somebody was telling me my playing corner .
Speaker 7:Yeah , it's a hike , but like , it's very doable, but you know, you feel it and you're like, you're climbing some serious stairs if you look at your phone app later. Uh , really? But yeah, it , but it's a, I mean it's a real great championship course and the way they play it day in, day out, it's a little more friendly than the US Open, but October's like the perfect time of year to play it. Like, you know, cuz the, you know, it's not getting as much play as it doesn't peak season, you know, so it's in good shape and it's firm because we just got outta summer, but there's a little, you know, moisture in the air, so it's like not quite as burnt out as it can be in the summer. Yeah , I
Speaker 6:Gotta do that.
Speaker 7:It's a perfect time of year to play it. So you'll love it.
Speaker 6:Now how far is that from your guys' office? Because you're , you guys moved, you guys have your office downtown now, right?
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah. We're located, you know, five miles as it crow flies, but it probably takes 15 minutes to drive there from our office.
Speaker 6:Cause aren't you guys like close the water too, like your offices? I think Brandon was telling me that . Yeah,
Speaker 7:It's not a bad location. I mean we're kind of in an industrial port like area, definitely like a blue collar, you know, area of , uh, distribution and you know, manufacturing. But it's right off of the edge of downtown Tacoma, which we love. It's got like a cool grungy Brooklyn in the late nineties vibe . It's an awesome little city full of arts and culture and uh, we have a ton of great golf around here. Not just Chambers Bay, but like, there's 10 other public tracks near us that are like legit that, you know, some have posted , you know, NCAA championships and big stadiums and northwest uh , regional stuff. But , uh, a lot of great golf course on the South Sound of Washington. People don't realize that Seattle area, it's a little rough, a little harder. Like there's some good courses up north, you know, it's only an hour north of us to some of the , the better tracks in that area. But South Sound, you know, the Tacoma regions is much superior from a public golf standpoint for sure.
Speaker 6:And then where else you have one more after that, right after Chambers Bay or is it the last one for the year?
Speaker 8:Yep , we got one more. So this, we're calling it the Luck Championship. Uh, we're able to get some spots at a , at Pays Valley and Ozark and I believe there's one more course out there. What was the last one? It was great. Cedars I believe. Is that aj ? Big Cedar
Speaker 7:Lodge ?
Speaker 8:Yeah, that one. Something like that. Uh , so have three rounds of championship level golf down there. It's gonna be a really small field. I think we're looking to bring in like 42 people, so it'll be a really, really tight knit group. Uh , going to play some insane courses and it'll just be a really good time. So if you make it out to any of 'em , we would love to see you .
Speaker 6:So I just pulled up episode one so you guys can see how young we looked in like fresh and full of life. <laugh> in the middle of pandemic mind you, you guy . Look at Jason. Look , this is funny, it's not funny. Look at this young guy,
Speaker 8:Little
Speaker 6:Smile . And then also
Speaker 7:Headquarters right behind me , which was literally completed February 1st, 2020 right before the pandemic hit. So that's great time .
Speaker 6:Like there was nobody there but Brandon and Jason that day. I remember that. I was like, he's like , oh yeah , it's a really cool new place. Like you're telling me all about it. And it was just like no one was there. Yeah, cuz you couldn't right? Cuz of cuz of the pandemic. Look at Brandon. I gotta a find this picture of Brandon on mm-hmm . <affirmative> Young Brandon where Brandon had a , a baby
Speaker 8:<laugh> . Yeah. Pressure shave . Yeah .
Speaker 6:Oh , all . Yeah
Speaker 8:Man. That's
Speaker 6:When he started growing the beard he is wearing right now.
Speaker 8:Yep . You gotta had had to go with the beard. I remember that too. It was like my phone wasn't working or my internet wasn't working, so I had to go do it on my phone in the main area. And that's where we have a simulator now. Really ? So I remember just like punching over on my phone, headphones in just yeah . Winging it. Like,
Speaker 6:Just to be active and be healthy. <laugh> , I like stop on that, but whatever it's like to be active .
Speaker 8:Yeah. That's definitely not my motto anymore. <laugh> .
Speaker 7:Keep the kids alive.
Speaker 8:Covid did a number, man.
Speaker 6:Oh man . Oh , that's so freaking funny now. Lots changed with true with true in the last three years because before you were just making shoes, right? So like in the last, I would say year and a half, two years, you guys have like expanded, especially this year, this year's like your big party, right ? Coming out of all this new product and stuff like that. So I guess let's talk about that. So the guys out there who only know True as a shoe company, like what, what's been going on? What, what kind of made you diversify outside of your shoes?
Speaker 7:I mean, shoes are still our main thing, you know, like we love footwear and you know, we love that idea of developing, you know, the ultimate perfect pair of golf shoes someday . Uh , we haven't figured that out yet, but we think we're getting pretty good at it. Uh , so we're gonna still keep, you know, doubling down our efforts on the, the footwear side of things. Um, but we did just launch , uh, into apparel , um, and more accessories as we kind of , you know, did with footwear. We originally thought, you know, like, man, I wish somebody made, you know, shoes differently. Something , uh, more comfortable. Um , something that performed a bit more like a sneaker, something a bit more natural , uh, ergonomic. Uh, so nobody was making it so we had to make it ourselves. And we did the same with apparel. You know, we, we thought, you know, there's, there's definitely some brands out there kind of pushing the limits and athleisure and technical performance gear that's comfortable that can be worn for many endeavors to the office, to everyday life, to working out to adventure. But nobody was doing that well in the golf space yet. And we thought, you know, why don't we bring our perspective of what we think kind of modern apparel looks like , um, to the masses. And so we did develop , uh, apparel. We didn't wanna start from scratch though, cuz it took us 10 years to be pretty good at this shoe making thing <laugh> . Um , and we knew it would take a number of years to, to figure out the apparel thing as well. And so we brought on a full team of seasoned vetted professionals , uh, that also happen to be awesome humans that love golf, that have been making active outdoor gear for snow and , uh, skate and surf. Um , we brought 'em in-house to develop apparel with us and we think that the, the first collection here is just the tip of the iceberg. Uh , we're really proud of it. We used , basically, you know, the idea was let's use the nicest materials we can find , um, put 'em on classic time tested silhouettes like polos and quarter zips and , and crewneck and and pants and let's give 'em , um, just a little bit of a true minimalist aesthetic , uh, with the nicest material you can give it and make sure that they're durable, that they're quality, that they last, but they feel unreasonably comfortable right out of the bag. And so for us, that was , uh, the mo and I think we dialed that in. I think we nailed it honestly. Um, our customers have agreed so far, feedback, you know, even though they've only been out for a few weeks, reviews are in and they're all ultra positive. Uh , people love the fit, the feel, the performance side of it. Um , and I think that , uh, for us it's just, okay, where do we go from here? Now? How do we take our little bit edgy northwest perspective and uh, take the, the apparel even further. Which one , what was the first
Speaker 6:Thing you released? Well , actually the pants , the pan, right? Yep . These pants .
Speaker 7:Yep . Um , yeah. And so we released the all day , um, pant collection, which is just like a durable nylon shell kind of reminiscent of like a hiking, climbing pant. Um, but tailored to fit, you know, like a more modern classic Chino and five pocket for a golfer. And they are awesome. The feedback on those has been exceptional. Those reviews are all real, you know, they're flowing in consistently, but the fit is, is pretty dialed. I like the color palette . It's very natural and northwesty . Um, and you know, for us, like the biggest selling point is they're , they're breathable performance and stretch, but they also repel water. And so that's kind of critical for us. Northwestern Northwest golfers is , uh, you know, if you get caught in a little rain shower, you know, get hit with the , the late night sprinklers, you know, it's not gonna ruin your round . Um , and so the , the water repellency was big for us.
Speaker 6:So that was last fall, when was that? Yep . Last fall, right?
Speaker 7:Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 6:And then when did you do the jogger? Same time
Speaker 7:Those came out the first of the year. Yeah , January,
Speaker 6:Mid-January, I think. Yeah. Before the show. Yep . Yep ,
Speaker 7:Yep .
Speaker 6:But see, like you kind of like, like last year you started releasing hats, right? Because that was something new too. You started doing your own hat, which is really cool because I think you guys have a cool style and aesthetic. So I mean, it's a natural fit, right? A hat. Um, yeah,
Speaker 7:The hat was a total accident. Like we, you know, we, we did what most brands do, just to be candid for years, was we didn't have the time or attention to focus on developing custom headwear. So we just ordered through suppliers. And then when we finally had the creative team behind it , uh, we were able to bring in our own fabrics and fits and finishes and, you know, and actually bring the live custom headwear from scratch. And that was a game changer for us. So we started putting 'em out and the guys down at Banon Dunes that they loved to wear our stuff, you know, a lot of the guys that work in the shop, they were like, Hey, can you guys do your hats? But for us? And we're like, yes. Uh , heck
Speaker 6:Absolutely
Speaker 7:<laugh>, we'll do anything for abandon because we love it so much. And , uh, so anyways, we developed a custom headwear program just around their feedback. Uh , we developed a bunch of custom hats for, you know, a few of their shops. They became the number one sellers in their shops pretty quickly. And Oh ,
Speaker 6:They stole out like crazy dude. And those guys were all there on guy trips. They probably bought one of every hat. They would assume. Oh , yeah , yeah . Like I would've,
Speaker 7:Oh yeah. They , you wouldn't believe how many hats that those shops moved . Oh ,
Speaker 6:It's like so many hats. It's like, it's like the ultimate guy trip and they're already gonna be blowing probably five, 10 grand on that trip anyways. Like , I'm gonna buy one of everything. I don't even care. Right.
Speaker 7:Totally. There's a reason you see every guy that loves golf in abandoned apparel piece of some kind, whether it be a windbreaker or a polo or a hat. But you know, you go to Pebble Beach, you go to , you know, abandoned dunes, you go a stream song, you wanna , you want to remember it and tell people the story of, you know, the most epic week of your life. So, can't blame anybody. But , uh, now we're doing custom apparel and , and headwear for a lot of , um, wholesale accounts too. So smart accounts like Van and Dunes that want, you know, the true hat, the truest
Speaker 6:Cool hat, not like an imperial hat with some stupid little on it or like that says the name of the course . You know, it's all like weird embroidery or something.
Speaker 7:Yep , yep . I think that we're , I'm
Speaker 6:Not talking , I'm just saying. No,
Speaker 7:No. I think we need something unique and distinctive in that space for sure. You know, it has our own kind of true feel to it is what we hope, you know? So
Speaker 6:Yeah , hats are sick. I mean they really are.
Speaker 8:We've got a new , uh, just to give you a heads up , we got a really new fun program coming out for the hats. Um , remember the PGA show this year? We did like the Custom Hat press, people were lining up. I was just almost crazy up the door because that place was huge. But there was just like , but like line people.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 8:So we're working on , um, adding that to our website, the actual customization opportunity for users to just make their own hat , you know, pick your style, pick your color, pick your patch and we'll make it here. You know, I'd say it's a one of one , but you know, there's probably a lot of different combinations out there. So we're looking
Speaker 6:Lot That's smart. I mean, it can't take too long to make the hat. I mean, you have like the hat, right? And you have whatever accessories they wanna put on the hat, you know, whatever patch or whatever. And
Speaker 8:We got like patches here , like that's black and black dead golfer. Uh, just essentially you could pick from like eight different patches to put 'em on the hat of your choice. So be kinda like a little fun experience we can give people just to make your own hat and we'll make it here for you . So that's gonna be launching probably in the next, I would say in the next month would be my guess. Um , just to be safe, but it'll be a really fun opportunity I think for people.
Speaker 6:No , that's really smart. So then you guys are doing the hats and then you just released the Polos, right? This year? Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , that was the next big push or a new design? Yeah .
Speaker 7:Yeah, we uh, we released the Polos, our mock polo, which is my brothers and all of our tour players favorite to wear. It's basically like getting away , getting away with wearing a t-shirt on the PGA tour. Um, and then our Luxe t-shirt that sits alongside it in the layering pieces , um, like our crew neck and our quarters up , they're just freakishly comfortable. It's hard to describe it online. So it's like, Hey, here's a standard polo and a standard cord . Well it , once you get it and open it up and put it on, you're like, whoa, this is different. Um , we use
Speaker 8:What's crazy. Yeah. What's crazy about 'em too is like Jason talking about the frequency comfortable. Like we looked at, you know, one of the materials that we use is called Tinsel , which is just a , uh, naturally derived bamboo fiber, but it's insanely like soft and flexible and breathable. And if you look at like a lot of the top athleisure brands in the market, they use like a 15% tensile blend in all their apparel, which, you know, those top of the line guys , I mean they're really comfortable, but we essentially went more than double and triple that of that tinsel fiber just to make sure that ours are so buttery soft and comfortable. It's, it's hard to articulate how comfortable they are because, I mean, like Jason said, it's like, yeah, it's a blank colored polo, you know, like what, what's crazy about that? But when you put it on, it's a game changer. And we , I think we gave you , uh, a polo down at the uh
Speaker 6:Yeah. You , you gave, I just watched it. I just got it. Like I , I was washed this weekend so it was soft. I can tell you that I haven't worn it yet, but it, I mean it was super soft just touching it and I was like, oh, this is gonna be nice.
Speaker 8:Yeah, as soon as people have an opportunity to try it on, it's just like, oh, okay. I get it. Like even the t-shirt, like it's all made with that, that high content tinsel blend. Yeah. It's hard to articulate just how comfortable it is . So we're just telling people like, you just gotta try it. You have to try one. Buy a t-shirt, try it out if you like that. We use the same kind of blend on everything, so we know that if you try one, you're probably gonna come back for the rest pretty quickly.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I mean I think it's cool you guys are like expanding outside of what you initially had done, but like it's all quality. It's not like you just came up with a new, you know, oh we're gonna make a hat and then it's just another hat that anybody makes and you just slap something on there. Like you are actually designing the material, you're like figuring out what's gonna be cool, what's gonna be soft, what's gonna fit, right. Like you're doing it the right way. You know what I mean? And I think it's probably, would you say, cuz you guys did a lot of collabs I think in the last couple years too, right? Or Not a lot. We've done a couple Who'd you work , you've worked with , uh, what's his name? Links so right, didn't you? Some with Links Soul . Yeah . What was that? Oh, shoe . You guys did a shoe, right? Yeah .
Speaker 7:Yeah. We , uh, yeah, we love our friends over at Links Soul . They're like, you know, they're like family to us and uh, we definitely have a similar perspective and shared values when it comes to the game of golf and life and, and so yeah, it's always fun to work with them and other friends that, you know, that we just kind of like their perspective, whatever they do. Uh , and so that's what collaborations are for us. It's just been able to , to work with friends or, or brands that we admire, respect and come out with some fun unique stuff around them . Yeah,
Speaker 6:I mean those link socials are sick. I remember Those are really cool. Even like what two with them? I think I might be rolling . I think
Speaker 7:We've done like four now at this point. Really ? Four links editions . Yeah. Yeah. And so
Speaker 8:Two Nets, the slide and Election net four. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6:<affirmative>.
Speaker 7:Yep .
Speaker 6:Oh , the slide. That's right. I forgot about that one. Yep . Um, I think the best collab you guys ever did was this one right here. That was the literally the best collab <laugh> .
Speaker 8:You know , you posted one the other day . We haven't had that shoe in stock in like a year now , but now people are asking about it again . I was like, oh man,
Speaker 6:Bring it back .
Speaker 8:That
Speaker 6:One I like, I I was trying to find it cause I sold out, right? Like I sold out. So like, I don't guys know. So like we col like they were very generous and they collab with my other , with my other brand that I started two years ago that makes towels. And we did the Dead Golfer. They let me be part of the dead golfer collection, which was was that the first year you guys did the golfer collection, right? Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Cause you had a bunch of pieces. It wasn't just like it's a shoe. Yep . Right. Or so you guys had come out with like a towel. We used our towel or by towel. Um, and then we designed it together. We had your shoes, which were sick . You had like a ball markers it hat Right. Something else. It was a cool collection. Yeah . Um , and that really cool box, right. Come with some box set , I don't know . Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But yeah, that was really cool. I mean this is like this thing, I sold this thing out in like no time at all. I wasn't trying to like set this up either. I was like, I gotta find it . I was like trying to dig through my Shopify to find the old design. But um, so thank you for collabing with me on that one. Oh , sorry . We had it in black and white. I still cared on my bag. Like I So
Speaker 7:Do I I was just gonna say, that's my towel on my golf bag right now, so.
Speaker 6:Really? That's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 7:That's good stuff .
Speaker 6:Yeah, we , we did that one and we did that . Well I'm know CEO so we can maybe talk about that <laugh> . That's great. We also had a white one too. I'll show you guys in case you're on the live stream . Like we did this white one too. I love that white one looks really cool on a black bag.
Speaker 8:You know what we need to do is just a black on black one. Do
Speaker 6:Like a black on black collection for October. Oh, that'd be cool. Cool . October's always dead golf a month. So is it really as you guys did? I didn't know that. Yeah , that's smart. I love the dead golfer. It's ingenious. Like just having that, cause I think a lot of people just like think it's cool and I think it relates a lot of players like Oh yeah . You know, like, I don't know . I think it's really smart that you guys use the golfers one of your logos or one of your peeps. So what, what is like coming out this year? Like what's new for this year or you know, like down the pipe? Cause we've already come out with pants and polos and t-shirts and we have, I can email , I can email all your guys stuff , but I haven't looking at my screen. We have the joggers, the pants we have the t-shirts we have, well duh . We have the shoes, we have the hats. What am I missing? What's coming up ?
Speaker 7:Oh , we have a lot of things coming down the pipeline. It's a big
Speaker 6:Year, right?
Speaker 7:Yeah. Yeah. And so we have four shoe releases that'll hit between now and the end of June. Um, holy, holy
Speaker 6:Crap. Really?
Speaker 7:Yeah, it's gonna be an exciting time of releases for us. So we're actually previewing some of 'em on our website to our best customers right now. But , uh, we're going to by the end of this week re release what we call our tour collection, which is basically an elevated true original and a second generation of our Luxe Pro , which is our most popular shoe on tour. Uh , so they'll be called Luxe Tour and OG Tour respectively. We have a new rip stock coming, which is like really a way upgraded version of our Ripstop one, which we're pretty hyped on. It's actually our favorite shoe to wear in office here. Uh, we have our FSO two , um,
Speaker 6:Really , which I didn't know that.
Speaker 7:Yeah, it's a pretty cool little mixed media approach to our FS family. So it's got like a, it's got some knit side walls , some new bucks , sues and leather accents, super premium. Um, and it's kind of the predecessor to the FSO one, which has been our actually top rated shoe as far as fit, feel and , and performance like in recent years. So it's done extremely well for us as you see as it's sold out. Uh , so
Speaker 6:Comfortable . It's like so comfortable .
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 6:I wore these at PGA show like all day because Brandon was like, I'm like, Brandon, what shoe should I wear? He is like, what are the FSO one s like, just trust me on that. And I just got 'em I think at the time. So
Speaker 7:Yeah, they're, they're wildly comfortable. They actually fit really great for playing, you know, playing golf. They, they hold that heel cup in place . They're great. Super cushiony. They look like a sneaker, but like, they feel like a running shoe. That's my favorite part about 'em.
Speaker 6:So do you have an FSO two coming out? Yeah . I didn't know that. Yeah ,
Speaker 7:And we have an FS slide that'll hit right after that, which is like this ultra plush , comfy, you know, after golf slide. Um , so yeah, we're building on that FS family cuz people love it.
Speaker 6:Well you just dropped the all knit three right? Like a month and a half ago, two months ago I would say. I
Speaker 8:Feel like it's been out for like a year at this point, but yeah, it's kind crazy. I think it's only been like a month or two.
Speaker 6:I love the old day net too. Nit twos were my favorite I think of all your shoes ever. Yeah , that's just my, I have like one every color. So I didn't know you guys were gonna come out with a new rip stop too. I just bought another pair. The heck, dude, you should told me that <laugh> . I do. I got , I have the gray ones and then they all got all dirty and I was like, I'm gonna go buy the black ones. So then I went in the , I just got 'em, they're right there on the floor. I just got 'em like last week. They really are the most comfortable shoes. The FFF or the rip stops, like what is that ? What kind of material is that? It's not, it's
Speaker 7:Like a , it's a , it's a fully recycled polyester rip stop shell. And so it's like hyper durable lasts forever and obviously nice and sustainable as well. So it's been a , it is been a great seller for us for the last couple years. We just want to kind of like boost it a little bit. And so the ripstop b2 , you get a little extra cushioning in the outsole. Um, and then you're also gonna get , um, some more like stability in the toe box and the heel and the lace box as well. So makes it a bit more rigid and durable for, for long term . You won't have to replace 'em , um, for years to come.
Speaker 6:Now last year how many releases did you guys have? Last year wasn't as many, right?
Speaker 7:No, we're, we're not like doubling the amount of releases every year, but we're definitely increasing the amount of releases year over year. But I mean, the reality is we, we ramped up our design teams here. We have awesome, you know, motivated design team that's coming up with great ideas and you know, up at the top of the product development funnel, we have more ideas than ever, you know, and the ideas that make it out are still really, you know, selective. But we have more stuff making it all the way through the filter and getting to the public now than ever. So , uh, we're pretty stoked about, you know, what's in the pipeline. You're also gonna see it's
Speaker 6:Like ramping up, right? It was like ramping up because like you can't create stuff unless you have the people to create it, come up with cool ideas and to see it through, not just come up with an idea, right? Yeah . So there's like the whole process, which was probably last year right, for you guys was like ramping that all up and then all of a sudden it's like all this stuff is dropping like clothes and new shoe designs and all this cool stuff. Like, which I think is the right way of doing it instead , like you're always chasing your tail. It's like, no, we're gonna have everything in place so that we can sustain the growth going forward.
Speaker 7:No , you're you're absolutely right. It felt like a year of waiting, you know, it's like just
Speaker 6:I bet does , right? Cause you're like, oh we got a new color of whatever and yeah , it's like you guys are probably not that excited about it, but you're like, well, you know, as much as you would be a new shoe or a new design or something like that. Yeah .
Speaker 8:So what makes it tough is like some of the stuff that the teams are working on for 2024 , like we're seeing it now and you know, sampling and stuff like that and it's like we're super hyped on it, but we don't get to see it for another year. Like we can't show anybody it for another year. Like these is just the beginning stages, but the stuff that Jason and the team have working on are just next level yet. Like , yet again taking what we've built and continuing to build on it. And um ,
Speaker 6:This is so cool. Yeah ,
Speaker 8:It's fun. It's fun , it's fun.
Speaker 7:It's , uh, so
Speaker 6:It's
Speaker 7:Definitely not a bad job. It's fun.
Speaker 6:It's hard to believe it's been three years since I last had you guys on the show and I just saw you guys like two weeks ago, but still, I mean, it's just crazy. Like, I don't know , did it like how much you guys have grown as a brand? Cuz it's like your team's even grown a lot since then too, right? Because your team wasn't as big as it is now.
Speaker 7:No. Yeah. I mean we, we definitely have grown substantially probably at that on our first episode. Yeah . We've tripled probably in size since then as far as team members and yeah , we're pretty selective about who we're bringing on to the team, but I feel like we ,
Speaker 6:It's family, right? Yeah. It's like you wanna make
Speaker 7:It feels like family, that's for sure. You know,
Speaker 6:Because you guys are family
Speaker 7:<laugh> . Yeah, actually Brandon and I, yeah . Secrets out . We're cousins. So
Speaker 6:We're cousins. Oh ,
Speaker 8:It counts man. It counts.
Speaker 6:I did see a , i I did see a picture of you guys when you were little though. Brandy was showing that picture of you guys when you were like, I don't know , five or something, Brandon . Yep . Full head of hairs. All
Speaker 8:I had. Luscious blonde hair.
Speaker 6:It's
Speaker 7:Uh , working with your cousins, we figured out conflict resolution when like five years old. You know, we had to like fight over video game controllers and you know, who's gonna , you know, build the fort and who's gonna , you know, do whatever.
Speaker 6:Oh , you guys are tight. Yeah. So
Speaker 7:Apparently now we don't have to figure it out .
Speaker 8:Apparently now throwing rocks is not the way to solve things. So we've had to kind of adjust a little bit, but we figured it out.
Speaker 6:Well I'm really excited to have you guys on this hundredth episode. I just, I thought it'd be cool. Like I brought it up to you guys a couple weeks ago. I'd be like , it'd be really cool to do it just to kind of reflect like how far, I mean not so much me , I don't care, but like how far far you guys have grown in the last three years. Like it's crazy and like I can't even imagine what three more years would be like, to be honest. Cause I think it's gonna be huge. Like, I don't know , I like rooting for my friends that are actually doing cool stuff in the industry, not just same old, same old.
Speaker 7:No , we appreciate it man. We're obviously rooting you on too. So we, you know, who knows, maybe the first episode we filmed together was the catalyst of where we got to today. You know, you never know. It's just, it's definitely a part of the puzzle, you know?
Speaker 6:That's true. That's very true. Well thank you for the friendship and for supporting not only the podcast but my brand. Um, I'm a huge supporter of True . They're like literally my favorite shoes only show I wear like legitimately and so much so my dad even wears your shoes now and now he loves 'em . So you guys have to check out TrueLink Square shoes. Uh , where can people find them if they want to wear them or check 'em out? Yeah ,
Speaker 7:You can find 'em in TrueLink square.com . I mean that's the easiest way to get to it no matter where you are in the world. But you know, there's a chance we're at your local golf shop now too. We've expanded our wholesale footprint, so keep an eye out for us. Whether you're shopping at Sporting Goods or you know, shields in the Midwest, there's most likely a pair of shoes near you. Uh , yeah , but uh , if you can't find 'em , go to TrueLink wear.com and Brandon and his team will take care of you .
Speaker 8:We also , uh, are in the process of rolling out some new international partners. So we launched TruLink square.ca earlier this year for our Canada friends and I think about two weeks ago we just rolled out Tri Links uk um Oh wow. Friends over , over there. So we're getting socks in , uh, different countries and different parts of the world to make it even easier to work through . So now you don't need to, you know, try to rummage around and find a random pair. Like you literally just go straight to the source with the ca UK site and um, join from one of our partners. That's huge.
Speaker 6:Cause did you guys already have like a , a Australian partner? Cause I met , I met those guys twice now. They seem really cool. Yeah ,
Speaker 7:Yeah, they're rad And they're also part of building out our global footprint cuz they did it so well in Australia. They're helping us kind of onboard new territories like the uk That's cool. So yeah, it's gonna be a , it's gonna be a good , uh, next three years by the time we get back together. Truly coming soon.
Speaker 6:Yeah. All right . <laugh>
Speaker 8:Episode 200, you know, excited to see what that looks like.
Speaker 6:Well, thank you for being on the show today and you guys can check out True links where , and thanks for celebrating my hundredth episode and I'll see you guys in the next episode.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening to another episode of Behind the Golf Brand podcast. You're gonna beat me, the golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a comment. Golfer is always more fun when you win. Stay out of the beach and see you on the Green Green .