We made it to Episode 83 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my good friends Michael Zerah and Steven Moskowitz the Founders of Mullie Golf.
To elevate the golf-related buy-and-sell shopping game, MULLIE Golf has developed an app which focuses on an alternative experience of a modern-day marketplace approach.
MULLIE Golf, is the first-ever community-curated marketplace designed for golfers by golfers as a “social-commerce” forum to buy and sell golf products with zero fees, ultimately allowing goods to be more accessible, inexpensive, and educational. MULLIE Golf also acts as a strong foundation for beginner golfers currently look for ways to link with others in the golf community, all the while being able to purchase new or pre-owned equipment or apparel that may fit to a player’s specifications. Users can also organize their feed based on likes, style, and player skill level, allowing for ease of use and the ability to be updated as they progress.
We made it to Episode 83 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast. In this week's episode, I interview my good friends Michael Zerah and Steven Moskowitz the Founders of Mullie Golf.
To elevate the golf-related buy-and-sell shopping game, MULLIE Golf has developed an app which focuses on an alternative experience of a modern-day marketplace approach.
MULLIE Golf, is the first-ever community-curated marketplace designed for golfers by golfers as a “social-commerce” forum to buy and sell golf products with zero fees, ultimately allowing goods to be more accessible, inexpensive, and educational. MULLIE Golf also acts as a strong foundation for beginner golfers currently look for ways to link with others in the golf community, all the while being able to purchase new or pre-owned equipment or apparel that may fit to a player’s specifications. Users can also organize their feed based on likes, style, and player skill level, allowing for ease of use and the ability to be updated as they progress.
Today we play golf.
Speaker 2:Let me show you how we do it in the pros.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Welcome to behind the golf brand podcast. I never missed with the seven eye a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My
Speaker 4:Friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range
Speaker 3:From pro talk. You should learn something from each and every single round you play to fun from on and off the green.
Speaker 5:Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money.
Speaker 3:Just let me put the ball in a hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast with Paul liberatory.
Speaker 6:What's up guys. Welcome to the golfers authority behind the call brand podcast. This week, I have my friend Steven Mike from moley, and I am super excited to talk about this because this thing's cool. And it's gonna be a game changer literally in this world. Nothing's like it's been out there and I'm really excited. I talking about kind of how they started it, how it works and kind of the growth, the crazy growth I've had over the last year and a half. So without further ado, welcome to the show.
Speaker 7:Appreciate you. Thank you.
Speaker 8:What's up, Paul? Thanks for having this
Speaker 6:Man. We had some technical difficulties, mainly me. We
Speaker 8:Did. So, uh, we all had tech technical difficulties. We run the wrong link. You guys were crackling. Couldn't hear us. So we made it, we made it,
Speaker 6:We made it yay. One time I had a guy on, we took us four tries because every time we talk, we talked for like two hours and we never even recorded it. So it was like about business and. I'm like, oh, we can't, we can't get<laugh> like per like, no, like, oh yeah, it's my numbers and all this stuff. I'm like, oh, we're not using this. So you guys are cousins, right? Yep.
Speaker 8:Not by choice. Where'd you guys
Speaker 6:Where'd you guys grow up at
Speaker 8:<laugh> we're business partners and friends by choice, but cousins. I, I had, I had no choice in the matter
Speaker 7:<laugh>
Speaker 6:So who, how are you guys relate? Is it like your parents? Like, are you first cousins, second cousins? Like what are you?
Speaker 7:I think technically it's it's second cousins. I think that's our parents are first cousins, I think that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Oh, that's cool. So you're like one. So it's not like, it's not like your dad is his uncle or something weird like that. It's more like one step to remove
Speaker 8:<laugh>
Speaker 7:No, no,
Speaker 8:We're great. Start.
Speaker 6:So what, like, how'd you guys, I mean, like, what's you guys' background before we begin talk about Mo like what have you guys been doing bef you know, this, like your full-time gig or is this, you know, kind of what you guys are doing right now and how you guys kinda got there?
Speaker 7:Yeah, definitely. Uh, definitely a full-time effort on our end. Um, I'm a, I'm a career software guy, so, uh, I've been a software consultant my entire life, uh, my entire professional life, I guess I should say. Uh, and, and as we transitioned that when, uh, when Mike and I sort of came up with this idea and, and got some contours to it, uh, transitioned that into spearheading the, the development of, of the Molly platform worked with some big four consulting companies, some small businesses, medium businesses, extra large businesses. Uh, so it kind of got a good, uh, a good background and diverse experience set for, uh, how the world works and how to take a company from zero to global. And, uh, now implementing that stage by stage
Speaker 8:With Molly, I mean, Paul, you gotta tell me, ma'am like, do do the, I know, do the users care about the backstory? They, I don't know the listeners care about the backstory. Yeah. So, uh, mine's a little different, I didn't have that kind of career path for me. Um, I went to USC university of Southern California studied real estate finance. And I don't, I'm not sure if I'm the norm, but I, I just, I, I got into corporate America right away and I was like, I, I wanted to stab and nail my foot every other day. And, um, you know, elk always kinda had an entrepreneur spirit. Like I was at school at college and I would go to trade shows with my dad and I'd find these like gadgets or USC hats, and I'd go to the games and I'd sell'em in the parking lots. So I always had this entrepreneurial bug. Yeah. I, I, I was always the kid trying to make a dollar, you know, at, at a, at a 10 cents. And when I had some ideas, I, cause I did go corporate in the beginning, I went to a large publicly trade company, um, doing, uh, garment, garment licensing, uh, with, with like target and big five. And those got the big box retailers. And I just had some ideas and my ideas would always get kiboshed and killed, but it, and then I'd see the ideas happen by some competitor, like years later, I'm like, see, not that I know everything but
Speaker 6:Happened. You saw it. Right. You saw it. They don't wanna listen to you. It's corporate America. And you're like, oh, you're just a grunt. Well, I was
Speaker 8:Just, I was a 22, 23. Like, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know who this is. I'm like, actually I know who the soccer player is. And it's Chris, John Ronaldo and, and you can't get next thing I know he has a, he has a, I told my, I told this story to my parents other night anyway. Um, I
Speaker 6:Wanna hear this story. I wanna hear this story. No people like stuff
Speaker 8:I'll make, I'll make it clearly quick. So I, I, so it was a licensing company and you and I, you would take people's license, like their name and likeness and license it to a, to someone like a Tesco or, or a target Walmart. And they would base cuz they do a lot of their own manufacturing. They would build, they would make, they would use their facilities to make the, the pieces of clothing or, or what, what have you. And they just stick the label on it and they'd create their own label. That's how the lifeing works. Anyway, had an idea with Chris Aldo. He was still at man, this must have been 15 years ago longer. I had the idea cuz he was with Nike and he was like, his career was exploding. And I was like, let's do like something with like hats and goes, well, Nike owned hats. And I'm like, so we went down every single category. I did a lot of research. Anyway. I figured out Nike's Nike, didn't do socks and underwear with him. So like, let's do that. Like, no they're gonna eventually do it. You're like, no, you're an 88. You don't know what you're talking about. This would never work fast forward. Some years later, Christiano has his own sits called CR seven, a underwear and sock line out. So,
Speaker 6:Um, it's his own line, right? It's like his
Speaker 8:Line. Well his own line. So it's like,
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 8:I mean, that's goes to show for any, for any, for anyone out there listening that wants, that has an entrepreneurial bug. You just, you're never gonna get it right the first time. And so sometimes corporate America and, and, and that industry, that world doesn't quite respect that spirit because you gotta put in your licks and put in your dues. That leads my take on. I I'm by no means to, you know, no power.
Speaker 6:No, but you're right though. Right? It's like, it's like, there's a hierarchy. And like, no, one's listening to you when you're the, when you're this level, it's like, oh, you're not at whatever. So, and it's like, yeah, but I know I'm I know what's going on in the market. You don't like
Speaker 8:I've that
Speaker 6:It's very common.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I'll, I'll just, I'll fast track the rest of my story to, to get to where we are now. No, that's cool. I had, I just had that bug and I had a mentor, a mine, Seth Epstein, who kind of took me under his wing and said, okay, if you're not gonna go corporate, like come work for me, do these things. And kind of like mentored me through the process of going, working for another startup or how to sell for them. Um, then, then go, you know, eventually kind of hop around, learn some different trades. And then I finally was able to kinda start my own business. Uh, it was called lucid appeal. It was a software as a service mobile tech company, mobile first company that, that I, I went out and I got the Lakers, the Clippers, um, the Washington Redskins and bubble Watson and a bunch of other people on my platform. Holy crap. Uh, this was, this was night. This was 2013, right? Team, I think like, like way back when, and um, you know, just use that hustle to go sign these contracts, these people, to, to my company. And then, and then next thing you know, I ended up selling that business, uh, like shortly thereafter, but I have everyone listening. I've had more failures and I've had success. That was my only success kind of story. I went on to do other kind of mobile first technology companies. And Steve was there helping me along the way, kind of as, as a coach and saw like all the business mistakes I could have made as, as a young professional in my, in my twenties, early thirties, I, I made and then I think I learned a lot from that. And then one summer, and this is where it gets kind of the emotional tie into, into moly one summer. I was just so to be dead honest, I was so broke at, at like 33. I had no like no money when I say no money. I mean, like I could barely go afford a$5 foot long from subway. I was selling everything I could sold watches, sold clothes. Finally, I got to my golf clubs. I, like I said, a mirror golf clubs back in, in my garage in Los Angeles. And I think I was in Florida at the time. And I was, I know, I know those clubs that those stats set was were like three grand or 2,500 bucks. Like the limited edition, like baby blades.<laugh> by the way, I was definitely not good enough to play them anyways. So I had, I had to sell them. Um, and then I had some, some Scotties and I had some wedges anyway. I, I just put'em all up on eBay. And um, you know, I think I sold the majority of my collection in like a few days or a week. And I got the invoice from eBay that I owed them 10% at the time. Now it's 12 point half percent. And I had to pay them out like 800 bucks or thousand dollars. I'm like, wait, I need this money to live. I can't. I know, but I that's when the light bulb kind of went off, I, I, you know, I didn't go to golf works for the other forums because the forms were just the usability, the technology wasn't there it's like upload a photo would crash half the time. You couldn't really respond in message
Speaker 6:One year old technology. Like how many people really on a forum. I know some people are, but I mean, a majority of consumers are not right. I would assume. I mean, I'm not. Yeah.
Speaker 8:So I know I'm talking a lot. So I'll just say that that was
Speaker 6:No, it was great. This is, this is great because people need to, this is the problem, right? The problem was, if you want to sell your, your golf gear, whatever it might be, you have really what, two options before you guys came along, you know, you'd eBay, or you had like an offer up or a Craiglist or some like that. Right? Those are it. You know? So you're talking about local. Maybe I would. I never, personally, I never saw anything on offer up and like mailed it. Cause I would out don't trust that I don't think it would work. It's like, like saying something via, you know, Craig says the same way. So like the Safeway of really doing is eBay. But like you said, eBay charges you 12%, right? Yeah. So, I mean, it's a lot, right? I mean a hundred, no, what golf equipment's cheap. None of it is. So
Speaker 8:Even that, that, that was, that was the concept, right? That was, it was like the white bulb went off for me before I, I went to Steve and, and Steve's miraculous, brilliant business brain helped to kind of connect all the dots that I was like, I don't know what to do. Um, so I just, I knew that I knew that golf equipment and gear, most of it was all high price items. I know eBay when it was founded back, I think in 95, 97 in that, in that like, you know, initial tech, boom, the.com boom. It was like, it was intended for like knacks garage sale items, like$5 stuff,$6 stuff that you would, and they have to take some money to pay for the server cost, but whatever overhead was, but in today's age with all the tech trends and everything go happening, I was like, I went to Steve and I was like, dude, we have something here. There's, there's a kernel of an idea. And we put our brains together, partnered on this together. And, and, and next thing, you know, two, three years later we have Mo which you see today. So I guess that, that was that's the, that's the,
Speaker 6:No, that's cool. That's like the fruition of like what, how it all started. Right? Like most guys that start a brand or a company. I always ask the question, like, are you guys golf pros? Right. Because, and most people are not, they're just like, no, we play golf. We're okay. But like, we have an idea to make golf more fun or better or whatever it is. And I like, I mean, that's, I think that's fantastic because there isn't, there was a need that nobody really thought like, Hey, this isn't cool. Right? Like there's used to doing it this way. Um, and like you're saying before, like in, you know, around 2000, I had like the president of, of, um, global golf on. Right. And he said, essentially when he started, he just bought up used clubs everywhere. Right. Cause they were always the used clubs in the corner of a, you know, a pro shop that like people traded in and there was no, there was no market for back then. And so he would buy it and he would sell it on eBay and that's all he started doing and like going around and building that whole structure out. So I think it's really fascinating.
Speaker 8:Thank you. And I, I think before I kind of turn it over to Steve to talk about what we're doing and how, and how he got to his side of the business, where it's at. You know, I will say that we all know that I dunno how direct I wanna be and start people off. But we all know that the current environment in which we bought flawed, right. Like going into, when I used to be a kid in Los Angeles and Santa Monica, shout out Roger Dunn for all the fun hours. Like we just wasting that store, but like going in there right. And, and trading in my clubs, they gave me$3,$4 for a pretty good, you know, wedge, or they gimme a$15 for a putter. They gimme me a hundred dollars for whole set. And then they, they it's on the rack a day later.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Three times, a four times,
Speaker 8:A a hundred times. It like gimme, like, it was just, it was just, it was so ridiculous. So 17, the dollar is the number we came to 17 on the dollar,
Speaker 7:On the dollar. That's, that's the number we, we worked backwards into. Yeah.
Speaker 6:So for trade ins. So when you trade in stuff are giving you some whatever.
Speaker 8:Yeah. And then, well, so it was, it was that, well, I, so that was one part of my brain. And the other part of my brain is at the time there was the, there was the rise of what we called social commerce and it, you know, Poshmark, Depop grayed reverb. All these, these social commerce communities started to pop up about 3, 4, 5 years ago. And it was, it was just a, it was, it was an evolution of, of online shopping, right. It was eCommerce where we took the power out of the big box and gave it to individual sellers cuz the secondhand market was starting to explode or exploding. And then all, everybody wanted to get off EBA. Everyone had the same kind of idea where I want, I wanna operate in a vacuum. I wanna, I wanna operate and sell and communicate and, and transact with my peers, not, you know, the managing company. And I think what we were watching that happen and, and Grailed was a huge influence on me. Um, and how we designed and, and really kind of came up with moly. But we also have now in, in 2.0, in our, in our new features coming out, there's a lot of moly unique, one off, you know, development happening. But I, I think between social commerce and seeing the breakdown in real time, the timing of Mo and how we came about this was, was pretty serendipitous. I will say,
Speaker 6:Well, I think it's cool because it's forward thinking, right? You saw this in other, we've seen this in other industries. Right. Or whatever you wanna call it and no one's been doing it in golf. And you kind of asked yourself why. Right. Because is there any, you know, so someone knew how to come into this space essentially because the old status quo is not gonna change what they're doing. Especially if they're making huge margins on their, you know, trade in or whatever they're doing. Um, so I mean, I think it's cool because like my wife uses those other, those other apps. Right. I mean, it's kind of like, it's kinda an everyday thing now, but like dudes don't, I mean, dudes that play golf are like, oh yeah, like their golf equipment, like what are they gonna do? Right. Like, oh, I can trade it in. I can put on, I could have a garage sale, which like really nobody does anymore. Um, or I can go try to do offer upper Craigslist or I can go to Goodwill and drop'em off because I don't think they're worth anything. Like that's the options. And now it's like, you're making it. So it's a lot easier, you know? So I guess Steve, so when Mikey had this idea, right, were you like I'm down? Like, this is cool. We can build this out or like what happened?
Speaker 7:Well, yeah, we actually had a great, great question. On your prior point, I'll come back to this in a minute, but on the prior conversation about why these other social commerce companies work is, is because they took a hyper passionate community and focused it, right. These guys were everywhere. They were all over websites, scouring forums, scouring blogs, like finding the items that they really liked. And these companies came along and said, oh, let's just bring all that here.
Speaker 6:That just centralize it.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Centralize. And, and I think, I think golf is, is the same way, the reason for a couple of reasons, but the right, I think the reason it hasn't happened in golf yet, and wouldn't happen in golf for a while, if it was up to us, uh, is because of who the nor the traditional golfer demographic is. Right. So golf as a whole is, is usually for older, more well off people. Um, that's, that's changing. I mean, radically changing very quickly. Like, I mean, I dunno if you guys know this, but, but COVID brought more people to golf than tiger woods. So think about that for a minute, by a significant, by a significant chunk. And all of those people who are doing it in COVID are all over the map in terms of demographic, age, you know, network,
Speaker 6:Everything, literally everything.
Speaker 7:Yeah. We they've created like golf is like this kaleidoscope of audiences right now. You know, that toy when you were a kid, you'd look through it, it would explode whatever image you were looking at. That's that, that's what golf is. Everybody's a different piece of that kaleidoscope. It's pretty crazy anyway. So I, I think it would've taken golf a long time to do it if it wasn't for, for Mike's entrepreneurialism and, and my tech background, um, to, and, and our age BR our age bracket, just to be straight up to say like, Hey, look, we're, we're here for the next generation of golf in any event, in terms of, uh, in terms of the, the kernel of the idea. Yeah, it was, it was good. Um, uh, used clubs is, is tricky because of PGA price guides and all these OEMs have established their own programs, you know, the Dick sporting goods and Carl's golf land. And Roger Dunns, you know, they've all got trade in programs that use this PGA price guide. So, so how do you kind of disrupt that? Uh, Mike and I had a conversation early on about, uh, the movie half baked. We, we likened Molly with our like initial business model. Uh, I don't know if you guys remember that movie, but love the, the actor in that movie is like, you know, you've got this great idea. Do, do you remember eight minute abs<laugh>? He was like, yeah, he's like, I got seven minute abs and it's, that was kind of the kernel of the business model. Let's just be cheaper than eBay and people will come to us. And, you know, I think we realized pretty quickly, you know, thanks to, thanks to half bake, uh, how flaw that, that business model was. And we kind of broadened our perspective to how are people shopping now? Like,
Speaker 6:Like you have to be radically different, right. Because here's a little bit different. Like they have the complete market share. So it's like that little, bit's not gonna move'em at all right.
Speaker 7:Golfer.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Yeah. Like it has to be, I mean, that's, that's really good for people in business too, to understand that, like, you can't just be a little bit better, like that doesn't work. Right. Unless you're selling like widgets, like, and you have a, and B widget. Yeah. You might be able to sell the widget for like less, but if you're trying to make a whole new platform, like that's hard. Right. I mean, yeah. So was like your original version, was it like the seven minute abs essentially the seven minute apps? Was
Speaker 7:It? Yeah, I think that was even the build name inside the software. Seven minute
Speaker 6:V1, seven minute AB
Speaker 8:I mean, it took, it took us a long time to get to where we are now, which just put that out there. Like what people see today was not what we've had even a
Speaker 6:Year ago. It's a, it's a lot of time and money to build out an app in a functionality it's like, I couldn't even imagine
Speaker 7:It is. And then, I mean, I, we, we started off with, you know, a couple thousand dollars and we bought a, a mostly built eCommerce platform. We were gonna customize. And, you know, we spent almost a year on that, put it out in a very limited fashion and it was just total.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Breakdown, or just didn't do what you wanted to do. You had add all these Boltons to it.
Speaker 7:We never even got to the bolt on stage because COVID hit. Um, and our developers were, were overseas in, in India for the first iteration of this, uh, cuz we were, you know, outsourcing the whole thing and thank, I mean thank God for COVID. I don't mean that in the, the, the societal way. Oh no. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Our business. Yeah man. You're going really, uh, wow.
Speaker 7:It really
Speaker 6:He's. He's not from both end. He's like's awesome because of golf, but COVID sucked for this reason. Kidding.
Speaker 7:I gotta see the whole, they gotta
Speaker 6:He's in the middle. He's right in the middle though. He's giving you both ends of the, the book call. Yeah.
Speaker 8:Now you see what I deal with on a day to day basis guys, this, this is, this
Speaker 6:Is it. He's probably, oh it's six minute abs
Speaker 8:Five minute apps.
Speaker 6:Get an idea,
Speaker 7:Call you with three and a half minute. Abs<laugh>
Speaker 6:Sold. I'll buy that right now.
Speaker 7:Yeah. But anyway, that then COVID took on, took out our dev team and it really forced Mike and I to, to pause and reset and say,
Speaker 6:Look, you're like, no, but literally it did<laugh>
Speaker 7:No, it did not. Thankfully, no, nothing like that. But they, they all went down with the
Speaker 6:Illness or whatever. Yeah. Then you, it gave you a minute to pause. Right. And you're like, okay, wait a minute. What are we really doing here?
Speaker 7:Yeah. And then we really, we found a dev team, you know, on shore and, and here in the us and, um, have built that out now. And they're just kicking and taking names, the text.
Speaker 6:But when you, so, okay. So in 2016, you said, or was the 17 was when you started like V1
Speaker 7:2000 late 2019 was technically like the, the impetus, the founding of moly, the corporation,
Speaker 6:The release. Yeah.
Speaker 7:We, we didn't get the release out until like mid 20, 20. I wanna say maybe early March, April, like literally right when COVID hit it got out and you're like, this is all broken. And they're like, Hey, we just shut down the whole country. We're not doing anything. Um, and it was like, all right, well I guess that's that<laugh> and then a couple, once we kind of got into the operating rhythm, all, you know, the whole world did and how to work in a pandemic. Um, we had already iterated through the initial, um, the initial platform and come up with more of the social commerce community building. Uh let's let's make this free and give power back to the golfers and, you know, through differentiated offerings, we have coming down the pipe, like Mike said, uh, brand alliances with, with some of the brands we've worked with already and, and are targeting to work with that we'll bring cooled new and unique product to the golf community and um, beyond the utility of the platform, that that will be a big draw, I think for, for people.
Speaker 6:It's really cool. I mean, I think, I mean, I'm gonna talk about it quite yet, like, but it's really cool. So
Speaker 8:I do, I have to say before, before, before we go on from that, I just wanna say for, for any entrepreneur listening, cause I know Steve and I both share this mindset and, and a passion to create. I think him and I are both creators, even in different worlds, different career paths, right. He's always created in his way, an element I've always created my element. Um, no matter what, though, for anyone out there that wants to create or wants to start something, there's a quote by Wolfgang Johan Wolfgang won goth. I think I don't have to pronounce the name correctly, but I'll never forget this. Cuz one of my mentors always like, like really branded in my brain, whatever you can do or dream just begin it boldness has genius, power and magic in it. I'll never forget that because what, when you too many entrepreneurs think and try and map out the entire plan from a to C and I think Steve and I knew we couldn't do that. It was get on the playing field and go, you can't coach your way to victory. You have to, you have to get on the playing field, go and move iterate, go be fast, be quick and learn, break
Speaker 6:It. Yeah. Break it, break it,
Speaker 8:Break it, it, it
Speaker 6:Fail break, fail, break. Yeah. That's how you build it. Like
Speaker 8:That's what I mean. That that's literally what we did from our MVP product to version one, version one, do one version two. Like it would, it's just, it's just been so much breaking and iterating and like, and I think if anybody out there could see what we had to go through, it's like, it looks like just a beautiful train wreck in ki in a way. But it's beautiful because we are, we are. So we adapt so quickly and we work so well together as a team and our team behind us works well with us and we communicate well. So I think that that just, I just wanted, I just wanna have that footnote for anyone listening that that wants to have an idea. Just, just start because truly there's so much magic and learning and when you just start and stop to think and plan. So
Speaker 6:Yeah, sometimes you almost can't think, right. You gotta like, you have the idea and you need to run with it and then don't think it all the way through, because it's not gonna work. The, what you think is gonna, happen's not gonna, it will come, it'll come about through evolution of the product or whatever you're trying to build. I mean, it's so very true, right? Like anybody, I think what I say, like this, this paralysis by analysis, right? Like that's, I mean, that's like, we've done that in law school. Like it was the same thing. It's like, you gotta just do it right. And see what happens and test the water. And like, I don't know. I think that's why it's cool. But bringing guys on like you in the show, because it's like you get it right. And like a real entrepreneur, like you have to live this life. Like if you don't yeah. Then go back to your cubicle. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 8:And I, I will say, yeah, I will say getting, getting a, co-founder getting a partner like Steve or anyone, anyone that compliments your skillset is, is highly beneficial and extremely valuable. Because I think in my world, I would've moved so fast. I wouldn't iterate appropriately. I wouldn't have actually looked at the signs to calculate what happened to re really make a better fix and a better change. And I can't speak for C, but I'm sure that my, my ambition and my passion to, to go, whereas he's, he's a meticulous planner and I'm, I'm a little bit, you know, zealous in my approach to think. I think when you, when you combine those speeds, you really balance each other out to do things where his, his ability to dissect and to produce and to look at things and, and, and, and move with a calculated effort. And, and, and that's, it's so valuable. So it's
Speaker 6:Like a ying, right? It's like, yeah,
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6:Like seriously. And the, the coolest thing though, is that you guys were, I mean, yeah. Okay. You were related, but that's different, but like you were friends before any of this, right. Like it was almost like, okay, well we're friends. We already know we do well together. We both have our own skillset. Let's just try it. Right. And like, if it was two mikes or two Steves, it would never have worked. Right. And they don't live by each other either. So that's a nice thing too.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I will say, man. I don't think, I don't think I've ever told you this. I'm looking at Steve now, if we didn't have that ninth whole experience in, in Delaware. I don't know if we, I don't know if we would've been here.
Speaker 7:No, we definitely, we would, we would not have that. That was a okay.
Speaker 6:Doing side stories.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 6:What happened? What happened? Ninth hole. Like I wanna know
Speaker 7:Train wreck<laugh>
Speaker 8:Oh my God.
Speaker 6:You, oh, you open that up. So I wanna
Speaker 8:I'll
Speaker 7:This is, this is, this is on me. Um, just being a, a petty jerk off. If I can say that here<laugh>
Speaker 6:No, we're getting FCC my stuff,
Speaker 8:Man. Is it recorded now? So I have it on record.
Speaker 7:Yeah. I mean, I told the
Speaker 6:Story this week, like I had that clip for later. I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do, I'll do a meme. Monitor it,
Speaker 8:Clip
Speaker 7:That clip. Yeah. I told the story this weekend at the PGA, we were out there doing an activation with Wilson all week. And you know, that we were talking to the, our Wilson contact and, uh, Mike brought this up then too. I think he really likes to, to, to relive this because he knows I was the petty one. And at this, at this point, um, long, long and short of it, my, you know, Mike and I, we we've known each other for a long time. Um, we, I don't think we really met until I was probably 15 or 16, which would've made Mike 12 or 13 maybe. Uh, but we
Speaker 6:Bonded. It was like five
Speaker 7:<laugh>. Yeah, no, no, no. But we bonded over golf. Um, it was one of the first things we did. I was new to the game. He, he grew up playing, you know, with his dad, uh, out in LA and, you know, we kind of bonded over golf and every year or so, I would make a trip out there and we'd play and hang out. And you know, that kind of cool. Yeah. Elevated throughout, throughout the college years. But, um, as Mike said, there's a, when he did this about our relationship, it's it's, if we couldn't communicate the yin and yang thing, wouldn't work. And if we didn't give each other the space to be each other, uh, the yin and the yin and the yang thing wouldn't work. But to, to get back to that, like, you know, mid twenties, Steve, early twenties, Mike, I it's probably where we were at that point. Um, we were both super, just frustrated with each other. We're both type a in different ways and just banging heads. And on top of that, we're at a competitive golf tournament that, that, uh, that, that he, that we did every year
Speaker 8:And I was kicking his
Speaker 7:with a bunch of buddies. I'm getting there, just going,
Speaker 6:Oh, was he really? Like Steve get like losing his. He,
Speaker 7:He, he had already me off. He was already, you know, being a, a childish sob. You know what I mean? And in so many ways, at least from my 25 year old vantage point. And, uh, because
Speaker 6:You're the age different means a lot too.
Speaker 7:It does, it does. But also I was 25 and that's gonna be, you'll heavily. This story is all about me being a baby also. Um, anyway, so he is, he is tuning me up in, in this golf tournament. He's on the other team. I must be like, like six down through eight, and I'm just getting absolutely crushed. Uh, and we're, we're playing a hole or whatever, and he hits one tight and I I'm off to the right or whatever. And he, he walks up to the green just to tap it in to, to keep the match going. And he hits the pin. This was obviously pre COVID. And I call a two-stroke penalty on him for, for hitting the pin. I'm like, Hey bro, you can't do that. Two-stroke penalty. Like I'm gonna win this hole. Like this is gonna be the start of my comeback. And he loses his ever loving mind.
Speaker 8:He's oh, I was like, are you kidding me right now? This is for friends. It was two feet on
Speaker 7:He's a hundred percent. Right. He's
Speaker 8:The rules. It's the rules. It's the rules.
Speaker 7:I'm like, I know in the moment rules, right. I'm yelling. I'm like, are you just so lazy? You can't take out. Like, I am just, I am poking this bear with everything. I've got long story short, Mike and his 21 year oldness walks off the golf course. Never to be seen. I'm going home. I'm like, you can walk home to California. I don't care. Um,
Speaker 6:What did it tournament together?
Speaker 7:<laugh> we were playing each other, but it was like a buddy's trip.
Speaker 8:That's it was one of those buddies trips. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Oh.
Speaker 7:So I, I find him in the pro shop and he's sitting there and you know, he's upset and, and I'm obviously I've cooled off. I'm I'm really upset. And it leads to like this two hour conversation of us blubbering and like the lobby of, you know, this, this one golf course next to the restaurant, like just talking out all the BS that exists between us. And if it wasn't for that breakdown, there's no way we would've had the communication ability to, to, to, to start a business. Well,
Speaker 6:You really bonded, right. You connected that point because it was more than just like two egos,
Speaker 8:Right. Because Paul I'll tell you, man, like we, we don't, we don't, I don't think we've ever come to that kind of dis argument ever, ever since then, but we absolutely, I think it's healthy to argue, not argue to debate with your business partner or your partner, any, any good friend. I think it's really, it's healthy to have a, a conflict of, of opinion. And Steve and I do this almost every single day, but we know there's so much respect and so much love that we never, we always kind of like, if, if it's a difference and there's no, no resolution, okay. We, we agree that we disagree and we at least, you know, shake hands and have virtual handshake and just, and move on, move on, you know, like we don't, there's no animosity. And I think like, that's
Speaker 6:There no fear, right? That's the thing. There's no fear that like, what's gonna happen. Like that line will, there's no line that's way over here. Right. And you'll never cross that line. Like, whoa, F you I'm done I'm out or I'm not gonna, whatever. It's more like we can be who we really are and talk about whatever the problem is. And like, that's huge, right. A partnership. Cause that's probably like 99% of the problems of why these things fail. Right.
Speaker 7:We we've had, we've had those too. I mean, there have been times where Mike and I have looked at each other and said like through this journey of like trying, failing, trying, failing, what's next? Where do we go? We've looked at each other and said, we, at this point want holy different things for what Molly can be like, if this genuinely is what you want and there's no compromise on, on your end or on my end, like maybe this isn't the best partnership. And we took our break and came back and, and said, you know what, there's this other way, you know, something would happen. And we'd be like, oh my God, this is so clear. Neither of us were right. Let's both move together on, on, you know, in this one direction. Um, so it's, it's been kind of faded, uh, in that way. We've had a lot of just random's cool, random things happen to us when they needed to happen.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 6:So that, so then after that though, like you guys were just living your lives, still your advisor, friends and whatever, but now it's like, you know, 15 years later, not 15, like 10 years later, and now you have this idea of like, Hey, we could actually build something. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. So then, all right. So you have the initial idea for moley and then, um, it goes live when like V one went live when in 20
Speaker 7:V1 in the 21, the current of the current iteration, uh, went live just after Thanksgiving in 2021
Speaker 6:In 2021. Okay. So then what initial features did that have? So we kind of explained to the listeners, like how it
Speaker 7:Kinda involved, um, all the, all the, what I would call core commerce features. So you could buy, you could sell, uh, there's a discovery tab we built in like a feed you could follow other users, uh, make offers. Yeah. Make offers, link up your PayPal address. Um, so you're, it's sort of like the, the beginnings of like the social fabric of who, who are you. You've got cool stuff. Let me follow you. So when you post something new, that's cool. Let me get alerted. I can go in and check it out. Um, in addition to, to being able to buy and sell your own stuff, all, all fee free. I don't think we've said that yet. Like we take 0% of, of your sale.
Speaker 6:Yeah. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about how moley works right now. So what is the, I guess kind of explain to a listener, like the concept of moley and how it works and why, and then the why we, why we should use it.
Speaker 7:Go ahead, Mikey. Oh, you want me to do it? No,
Speaker 8:You're well, we could we'll trade off. I think so, going back to the reason why I wanted to start this, uh, we'll have the idea with Steve is, is to really the, the fees were, were just frustrating for lack of a better word. Um, so when we put our heads together, do we go 2%, 5%? We're like, you know what, everyday golfers shouldn't be paying fees. Like there's other ways to monetize a platform. So I think when we, when we subscribe to that thought into that business model, um, any, anyone with a we'll call it a moly profile can log on right now, set up and start selling. Buying is exploring, searching everything you can do pretty much on, on any commerce site. But I think with, with the social fabric that we have developed and, and we're starting to weave into everything, right? So, and it's, there's a big update coming in the coming months where we're leaning heavily on social. Um, some of the behavior we learned from Instagram and early days in Facebook, like there's an activity that's happening that people are doing, that they're conducting, that other people are kind of curious about. So it goes beyond just like what, what someone shot on the golf course. So I think that's a fun information to have, but like, what did Steve just buy? What did he just share? What did he like? What did, what did Paul just list and what, what are people commenting on that listing? Oh my God, my dad had these, this is the first thing, my first set of hand me downs. Like, so there's a lot of that that's happening that you obviously cannot do on eBay that we are, we are at all rolling out. We are rolling out shortly. So, um, I think when we say social commerce, moly, moly is more than just buying and selling. It's connecting with people in the golf world. It's, it's, it's discovering people that have the stuff that you had when you were a kid. There's I think, and the golf being a social sport, we really wanted to make this experience of buying and selling extremely social. So I'll leave that
Speaker 7:Also discovering, uh, Discover's a big, a big tenant of our platform, but also discovering brands. Um, you know, the, the, the Nikes, Adidas, mal bonds, like everybody knows those guys. Yeah. They've got massive social media followings, and, you know, you can get on the hype train if you want that. But I, I think where, what we've noticed in the first couple of months of the platform beyond the, the regular golfer coming in to, you know, upcycle their items, if you will, you know, sell their old stuff to get new stuff, um, or relive some youth, I've certainly got a couple of those pieces I've picked up on the platform, uh, is these, these brands like these, these guy, these men and women in their garages are like hand kniting head covers. And, you know, they bought stitching machines and they're creating unique designs on hats. Like they're, that is really cool. T-shirts I mean, polos, polos, like,
Speaker 6:Yeah, they, creativity is like through the roof and like it's
Speaker 7:Astronomic
Speaker 6:And they get, and they get, uh, pushed down on Instagram because they're not, I mean, it's impossible to get followers. Right. It's like, yeah. And they don't. Exactly. And it's like, they, they, I mean, I love like, I, certain guys, I love like their stuff. Like I had cracking on, you know, cracking golf, Jeff Concordia, dude. Mm-hmm<affirmative> like that. Well, I saw him five years ago and I was like, this is some cool stuff. And now he's like big. And I'm like the talent that's out there that gets pushed down because the algorithm doesn't like it, or it doesn't, I don't know. You don't play the game, like it's crappy. Right? Like,
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 6:So I mean, that's a lot of guys are coming in then that way too, right? Yeah.
Speaker 7:Look, I think their, their value, they, the value they see in us is we assemble the audience. Right? We've got a good social media following we're out there doing live engagement with people. We're making people aware that this alternative exists and they're gonna come because they can get stuff they're they can get new, different stuff, new stuff, better stuff for less money and, and connect with their golf community at the same time. Like, we're basically centralizing your, your non-playing golf life that into, into our platform, which, which we think is, is super cool. And people will appreciate. Cause right now, also
Speaker 6:The collectors, right. The collectors that are out there that like, who like had come yeah. Who like head covers.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I got, I gotta say to piggyback off that, to piggyback off that. Well, yeah. Look at this head collection to piggyback off what Steve said too. And earlier he said, you know, tiger brought four point something million people to the game. Well, I'm included in that, in
Speaker 6:That, me too. I remember watching it at my dorm room. Like when he first won it, I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 8:I was on my dad's couch watching when he wanted 79 masters and 97 masters. Sorry. Excuse me. And then, and then there, from there COVID brought, what was it? Six point something million,
Speaker 7:6.2 million.
Speaker 8:Yeah. It, it, so what's happening with golf right now is so cool in my eyes. It's and we, we often make the, make the analogy. It's like skateboarding in the nineties. You know, skateboarding was much just very cult, little thing, very, very focused beauty that started to grow and become cool golf. Same thing. When I played high school golf, I was laughed at going out to a leaving school, you know, 10:00 AM going to a match. Now people are, are, there's like a wait list, like a tryouts to get on high school golf teams because how golf cool.
Speaker 6:Oh, I can get on. Yeah.
Speaker 8:So I mean, seeing that, and with that, with that growth that we are seeing, it's not just golf brands becoming golf brands, like for example, like, you know, crack it it's it's golf equipment stuff like it like, um, D tools and, and cool ball markers. They are now just like apparel companies with like graphic tees for golf, you know? And we, we are seeing shout out to super swings. Who's, who's committed to working with Mon Mo and selling on Mo cuz he has a lot of success on Mo he's he's going to thrift shops or going to offer up and finding, like finding these, these really great, the grail items like, like vintage Nike blades, refurbishing them, polishing them up, putting, you know, different ALS on'em and shafting them up and putting'em on mud. It's it's, it's an entire pop culture movement now. So, and you know, it, I, I could go on around about this topic. But's a few people
Speaker 6:Coming. Well, art too. I mean, you can think about like, that's one thing that's really kind of doing well on Instagram for the last couple years. Like the art of golf, right? The, the sick, sick, you know, head cut, you know, on the back of a blade, they do some coolest design, not just, you know, hammering and you know, but more like, and yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's crazy cool. And you're like, holy crap. How did they do that? Right.
Speaker 8:I think to Steve, I don't want Steve to talk through this cuz he was his breakthrough. Like there's so many personalities in golf now. Like before, when I played there was like that one personality was like the tiger, young tiger wannabe. Right? Yeah. Playing tiger or the old white guy. Well the old, yeah, the old, the old, the old white guy. That's exactly right. But now there's so many personalities coming to golf, whether you're a fan of, of bogie boys and Mamore and hip hop influence, or you're a fan of, you know, uh, whomever, it may be, but there's so many personalities coming that don't fit into, you know, into, there's no mold by golf shop, right? Yeah. So there's no now there's no mold. Yeah.
Speaker 6:So it was a mold before. Right?
Speaker 8:Where do they go shop now? Where are they gonna go shop now? Well, we want, we were aspiring to be, you know, that shop for everyone and Steve camp with the tagline, you know? Uh, what was it, Stevie? I'm gonna go ahead.
Speaker 7:Uh, yeah. So it's, it's come and play as you are.
Speaker 6:That's I like
Speaker 7:That. It's how we're thinking about it. So just, just come, just come, come to Molly, come play golf, like play as you are. It doesn't matter where you're from, what you
Speaker 6:Right. I went to my buddie's golf course, like a year ago to shoot some content. And like I had shorts on like regular shorts and a t-shirt. Right. But it's like, he's like, what are you wearing? And I'm like, what? I would wear my videos. And he's like, you can't wear that here. I was like, are you kidding me? And he's, I'm like this isn't a private co I'm like, this is not even a private course. Yeah. He's like, well, semi-private, I'm like. They pay up fricking fee to like play. So guess what I had to go do, he wouldn't let me get on the course and shoot my material. I had to go spend$200 in the, um, pro shop. And we were like, pants that didn't fit a big Adidas polo shirt that would, I would never buy. It was like whatever they had. And I was like, why would I, two hours of
Speaker 8:Film? This is our mold. You gotta fit the mold. And that's that's
Speaker 6:Exactly. I thought he was kidding, but there really is still a mold out there at certain places. And I was like, come on, man. Like for reals. So, um, you know, I think I, I enjoy that too, because I look at brands like radical golf. Like they came out like three, four years ago and I was like one of the first brands I worked with and I'm like, this is cool as hell. Like it's like so opposite of golf, but it's like, I don't know. And you seen a lot in California, too in the whole like Southern California scene where it's, you know, it's almost like that's the kind of the epicenter of a lot of it. Like the small, the, the social clubs and the, you know, I don't know. I think that's cool.
Speaker 8:I think if I could fast forward and look into a crystal ball and see a year from now, like where we be, it's it's gonna be, um, it's we are, we are a pro shop for everyone, right? We're like you go into a pro shop right now that you just maybe not be able to find what you need. And this is Steve's breakthrough. I think that that's kind of who Molly is. We are, we are agnostic to every brand, every being every person. And I think the more, the more we can cater to everyone is, is, is, is, is our value proposition.
Speaker 6:So all
Speaker 8:Or welcome. Yeah.
Speaker 6:How like, so where can people find moly? Like how can they get moly and check it out?
Speaker 7:Yeah. Uh, app store, uh, apple or Android. So just it's Molly, M U L L I E uh, we'll come up. We've got some, some pretty great ratings from some pretty committed community members who really like what we're doing. Uh, like I said, the tech is slick and, uh, we, we push updates like every other week or so with some bigger features coming probably late summer.
Speaker 6:So I know you, we got a couple more miniature quick, and I wanted to ask this question cuz you, when I talked to you guys originally, you said you were going to the PGA, uh, event this past weekend. So, and you're really excited by, but you couldn't tell me much about it. So what happened? Like what's kind of going on with, with that?
Speaker 8:Yeah. I'm up there. Um, I will say we've been blessed to have some relationships at Wilson and Wilson golf, uh, who believe in our mission to grow the game in the way that we're growing it and they're, they are, I don't think it's an arguable. I think it's a fact that they're the oldest go. They're the oldest sport company equipment sport company. There is on the planet working with babe Ruth and baseball, um, to, for them to come to us and, and, and say, Hey, we like what you're doing. Let's do something together and start to enroll this next generation. Um, we went to Tulsa with them and was, was able to set up like a, a a, I guess it was like a, a popup shop slash driving range challenge at the local gets like the version of top golf. Like I would, I use the air quotes, it's called, um, golf suites in Tulsa. And we were able to attract thousands of golfers that maybe wouldn't have that. Aren't like the typical white, old, white golfer, um, and get some golf clubs in their hands. We had long drive contests, close to the pin contest, pu contest. And I'm telling you when we had every walk of life out there, I mean every walk of life out there, um, getting introduced to golf in a way that they've never been introduced to it before. Um, and, and experiencing mowing how to shop. And I think for me, I cannot speak for Steve seeing, seeing that those breakthroughs and the eyes of kids light up. It, it is, it is the fuel that fuels this Mully train for me.
Speaker 7:I'll, I'll only add to that and say, you know, the, I was really amazed. A large portion of golf is like entertainment, golf, golf, course golf is what they call it. Um, I wanna say it's like 45% of golfers in the us have never stepped foot on a golf course. They're all doing this simulated stuff top. Yeah. It's crazy. What a conversion
Speaker 6:That market's blowing up, like crazy.
Speaker 7:It is crazy. Yeah. You can do it at a bar. You can do it in your living room. You can go to a driving range, you can do it at a
Speaker 6:Go your garage. You can, yeah. You,
Speaker 7:Anywhere you want, you can play golf
Speaker 6:Inside your house. Like,
Speaker 7:But people dress how they for golf, like what they think is cool for. And it was all different. I mean, that was like, sort of the kaleidoscopic moment was like, holy cow, like, you know, teenager is dressing different than dad is dressing different than mom is dressing different than sister. Like, and they've, but it's all golf gear. Like it's all accepted golf gear now. So I think that was the aha moment to say that it's
Speaker 6:That a, it's not a red polo with a polo horse and like brown Nike,
Speaker 7:No, Def Def definitely not. I mean, we, the number of like Nike blazers I saw out there Yeezy is like, people just mashing golf balls, 2 80, 2 90, um, all, uh, just, just, just doing great.
Speaker 8:And the thread, the thread that goes through it all, and this is my last comment. And then I'll, then I'll let, then we can wrap. Is that when they get over the golf ball, they're all making the same kind of move. They're all have the same kind of concentration. They'll have the same kind of respect. They same kind of golf that has this good vibration that no matter how, what you look like, where you come from, your background, the problems, your way you dress, it has that vibration that once you get over that ball, and once you get over into the zone, there's we are all the same. And that's the coolest
Speaker 6:Thing. That's what I love about golf. Right? Like you, like, you know, you go play you, you might play by yourself and you play three other dudes. You don't even know. And by dying, you're done playing 18. You guys are all best friends, right? Yes. It's like you do you go on an adventure together essentially. And nobody cares about how good you are. It's like, we're all talking crap to each other by a third hole. It's like, yeah, I don't, that's what kind of makes the game special for me at least, is that like, it's very, it's, you know, it's not inclusive anymore. Right. It's like, you know, everybody can kind of be included and everything's cool. And you know, well, I think it's cool what you guys are doing personally because no one's doing it. I like the idea, like there's no fees that, so it's like, that's brilliant. Number one, you can, I feel like you kind of hit the vein of what the problem's been for probably like the next iteration of how to get new gear or trade or, you know, like other people or just a com a community built around it without having a fish around a million places and forums. And the simplicity of the app is awesome. I think it's cool. I mean, I, I think you're like in two years from now, everyone's gonna know who moley is in my opinion, because like, oh, I have that app. I use that app. Oh yeah. I buy my stuff through there. Right. Like, and no one's doing it. And I think it's, I don't know. I think it's really, it's really cool what you guys are doing, so thank you, Paul. I appreciate that. Kudos. And, um, so again, if you guys wanna check it out, just to check out, check it out on, um, on the app stores, whether you use apple or, um, Android and, um, test it out. I mean, it's not gonna cost you any money and you're probably gonna like it right away. And, um, you know, like I said, they're always adding new features to it too, so be sure check out, um, moly and, um, thanks for being on the show today. Um, and I'll see you guys all in the next episode.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast. You're gonna beat me a golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you win, stay out of the beach and see you on the green read green.