Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

#78 - Needle Golf: Trip Todd & Andrew Creed (Founders)

June 01, 2022 Paul Liberatore Season 3 Episode 78
Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
#78 - Needle Golf: Trip Todd & Andrew Creed (Founders)
Show Notes Transcript

We made it to Episode 78 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast.  In this week's episode, I interview my good friends Trip Todd and  Andrew Creed the founders of Needle Golf. 

Needle Golf is a golf focused needlepoint accessories brand.  Their original product was the first of its kind, a blade style putter headcover with a fully hand stitched needlepoint exterior.  This was just the beginning for Needle Golf as they have continued to expand our product offerings since. 

Needle Golf was started by two friends with a passion for the game of golf and all that encompasses the spirit of the game. They are serious golfers that relish the never ending search for improvement in the greatest game in the world. Their goal is to bring craftsmanship and quality to our products without compromise. By sourcing the finest materials and always paying close attention to design, we ensure that no product leaves our warehouses without being perfect. They believe that golf is the ultimate parallel to life, it takes so much focus, commitment and drive to excel in either arena. They strive to bring all those qualities to the golf course as well as to Needle Golf on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1:

Today we play golf.

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Let me show you how we do it in the pros.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Welcome to behind the golf brand podcast. I never missed with the seven nine a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf. My

Speaker 4:

Friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range

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From pro talk. You should learn something from each and every single round you play to fun from on and off the green. Why

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Would you play golf? You don't play it for money.

Speaker 3:

Just let me put the ball in a hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast with Paul liberatory to

Speaker 6:

What's up guys, Paul from golf authority. Welcome to the behind the golf brand podcast. We are on episode 78. Crazy this week. I had my good friends from needle golf. I've known needle for probably two, two and a half years. I talked a trip on the phone and connected and I was, I was blown away about how cool their belts works. I've never seen this in the golf industry to be honest. So I'm really excited to have'em on the show to kind of talk about their journey. Cause they've done a lot in the last two years and are growing like crazy. So without further ado, I welcome trip and Andrew from needle golf. Welcome

Speaker 7:

To the show. Thank you.

Speaker 8:

Next fall. Yeah. Thanks guys.

Speaker 6:

So how are you where you guys live at? That's my first question.

Speaker 7:

Uh, we're both Connecticut based actually. Uh, I'm in Hartford area and, uh, trip is down south in the, uh, Reich area.

Speaker 6:

How did you guys meet? Like, are you guys like golf pros or something and you guys like met up that way or are you just like, what are you guys

Speaker 8:

Just, and Andrew's closer to golf pro than I am now. He, uh, we met at, uh, our club up in west Hartford became fast friends and I latched onto Andrew cuz he's a, he's a stick

Speaker 6:

And uh, he's good. Like he's your, he's your hat?

Speaker 8:

Oh,

Speaker 6:

I wrote he's the stick.

Speaker 8:

I Rodee him all the way to

Speaker 7:

Him. I remember.

Speaker 8:

But now we, uh, yeah, it just became good friends and golf partners and our wives are friends. So it's uh, yeah, it's, it's been fun.

Speaker 6:

Watching become like good friends. Like you've grown. Your relationship has grown over the years, like into

Speaker 7:

Really? Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Um,

Speaker 7:

It helps when you win a, a golf tournament together, so we win a member member and then, you know, once you do that, it's like your, your, your buddies for life and, and your,

Speaker 6:

What do you guys get when you win a member member? Like, do you guys get like a prize package or something?

Speaker 8:

No,

Speaker 7:

You got a big trophy that you filled with beer and then you drink it in the bar pretty much so.

Speaker 6:

And you,

Speaker 7:

You get some

Speaker 8:

Walking in paint on some, uh, old mahogany down in the locker room.

Speaker 7:

There you go. Yeah, that's

Speaker 6:

Cool. See, like there's not a lot of places in Arizona that have the, like, I know there's member clubs here, but not like it is out in the east, you know? So it's like,

Speaker 8:

You have so much good public golf out there that it's like, I mean, it's incredible the amount of golf that you have out there. We don't have that in the Northeast really that much. So you're, you're kind of, if you're a serious golfer, you, you really kind of have to join a club. What

Speaker 6:

Does it cost to join a club like out there, like 20 grand, 15 grand, or it just depends on the quality

Speaker 7:

Of that's highly, uh, variable depending on yeah. The type club and you have the Uber exclusive, which gets pretty expensive. And then, um, down the line more or less kind of like everywhere else, more or less,

Speaker 6:

But I mean, I've seen like clubs, like in LA area. And I, I, I had somebody on the show once and I remembered a club. So I went and Googled the club after the show and I looked the buy-in. I was like, what the hell? And then, you know, that was just a buy-in. And then after that, like the dues, I was like, holy crap, like, oh yeah, it's like a, it's like a house payment, but not even a house. It's like a house buying a house.

Speaker 8:

<laugh> well, the best part about Connecticut, I, I will say in the Northeast is that they're, they're different levels all the way around and they're all nice. So it's just really what, you know, what you, what you're into, whether you want a golf club or full country club or things like that. Um, so, but it's, uh, yeah, no, there are, there are a lot of nice places that, um, of different levels of investment that you can

Speaker 6:

Get into. So let's start with, what are your guys' background? Like, you know, obviously, I mean, are you guys, were you guys like, oh, we're we're belt makers, right? Like, I don't think that's true. What were you doing or what are you doing when you guys started needle golf? So people kind of understand like your journey in doing this.

Speaker 7:

Uh, I had a background in golf and trip came up with the concept of a, basically a needle point, uh, putter head cover a blade type idea. I

Speaker 6:

Still have mine by the way. You wanna see it? Hold on, go keep on talking. I'm gonna show

Speaker 7:

This. Oh, sure. Yeah.<laugh> uh, and he approached me one day and just

Speaker 6:

Driver looks on my daily bag. See, oh,

Speaker 7:

There you go.

Speaker 6:

I use that on my bag all the time. Totally. I was like, okay, show him

Speaker 7:

<laugh> no, they're pretty durable. It'll last forever. But, um, it was trip's idea to come up with that, that concept, you know, it'd never been done putter head cover with, you know, a hundred percent hand stitch needle points and he approached me about it and I was intrigued and we decided to play around with it. And we went through probably what, how many, how many prototypes trip? Like maybe 30 or 40?

Speaker 8:

Yeah, I've one of the originals, some staring at, across my office, uh, up on the shelf. I think the original prototype that we did. Yeah. It's it was pretty horrific compared to

Speaker 7:

It was challenging<laugh>

Speaker 8:

It took us a long time of R and D cuz you know, we wanted this thing to be perfect. Right. And being serious golfers. We, we wanted to make sure that not only was the product of the highest quality, but that it was easy to use and looked great. That takes a long time, especially when you're designing something from scratch,

Speaker 6:

But in your mind you knew what you wanted to make. It's just like, right. And it's not conventional. It's not,

Speaker 8:

When you get down to things like, you know how much what's the internal lining, but how, how thick should the interior be? How long? Not only just the dimensions, but then okay. I think we spent months on just the magnets

Speaker 7:

That was finding

Speaker 6:

A strong magnet. Yeah.

Speaker 8:

You get them either too strong, you know, you you'd sit there and you'd be like, oh my God. Or, or they be too weak and that doesn't serve a purpose and we

Speaker 6:

Definitely math. They're expensive too. They're not cheap. Like they're expensive.

Speaker 8:

Right. And we definitely did not want to go the Velcro route. So we wanted this to be a premium product, but that was gonna be performance driven.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It's like it almost, it would cheapen the product. Right. It was really cool needle point thing and also have Velcro at the bottom. It's kind of like it kind of, you want it all be uniform as the quality.

Speaker 8:

Yeah,

Speaker 7:

Exactly. Yeah. So anyways,

Speaker 6:

How, how you went through, how many prototypes before you actually came up with the first one? Like, would you say 30?

Speaker 7:

I, I think at least 30 or 40. Yeah. I mean it was back and forth and then we had to the size and the shape we modified and then to trip's point that magnets were a big challenge trying to get the weight and the, and the closure to be secure, uh, without being overly tight.

Speaker 8:

And then, then also too, you know, when you're dealing with needlepoint, these are all hand stitched. Right. So we're having to train our team on, you know, which is done in Asia on how to actually stitch it and be uniform within the tolerances. Right. Cause you can't have you, they have to be consistent in the quality and the, and the specific yeah.

Speaker 6:

But all over the place. I mean, it's like art,

Speaker 8:

Right. So that took, I mean we would get batches in and we'd go through them and be like, no mm-hmm. So there was a lot of, you know, whenever you start off, there was a lot of like kind of trial and error and, and the like, but uh, yeah, we, we finally figured it out.

Speaker 6:

What year did you guys start the idea and actually say, Hey, we're gonna try to really do this. What year was

Speaker 7:

That? 2017 was the beginning and, uh, kind of, kind of in the fall of 16. And then we, uh, once we had the, the design, right, uh, I had the, uh, the people that on the PGA show, uh, who I have some friends there, they reached out to us and said, you know, we really want you guys to come to the show. And we literally had one product more or less. And we were kind of debating about it. Like, should we do this? You know? So they convinced us to come down and we basically went down there with a, a bag full of samples and had a card table with some, some catalogs and, and pretty much launched, uh, with one product. And we were kind of half crazy, I guess. But the response was like through the roof, we were blown away. So we were like, okay, I think we have something here. And we got a number of orders out of the show and we were kind of off and running from there. And, and then we've just pretty much kind of expanded the product line. And we went, the natural progression was from a blade putter had cover to a mallet, which was equally as difficult, probably harder, I think, even to design. And then we've just kind of, uh, grown it from there across the board.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. I think that was the coolest part for me. I, I didn't know what the hell I was doing in the golf.

Speaker 6:

<laugh> anybody. I mean, seriously,

Speaker 8:

Man. And Andrew was like, all right, this is what to expect. And you know, you know, your partnership can last when you're like going setting up at a cart or a cart show at a, uh, you know, at the show at a cart table and you're spending, you know, 14 hours a day there

Speaker 6:

On your feet, you, your feet mine to be there.

Speaker 8:

You know, you're so tired at the end of the day that like, all you want is like a, a beer and like a fur just go to bed. And, uh, but it was such a learning experience for me. And I think what gave us kind of the incredible motivation to continue is that, you know, we we'd have these clubs, not just that everyone knows, but all sorts of people stopping by seeing us and being like, wow, that's really cool. No, one's done that before. And I think that's the cool thing about the PGA show is that if you have a good product, it doesn't matter where you are, like in terms of like the location in there. I mean, obviously it helps if you're in the center aisle, but you're gonna get people's attention that gave us a lot of motivation. We're like, Hmm, what else can we do? And that's where we, uh, you know, kind of really exploded from

Speaker 6:

There. So I have had, I've heard different things, right? Cause some people go to the PGA show and they, they don't like, they think they're gonna get their big break. Right. And then, and they don't, and then they're all depressed. And then, but you're telling me, which I think is cool, cause it's the opposite of the coin. Cause I haven't heard it is like you did get the feedback, you guys needed it and you did get the initial order to really get it going. Right. Because it was almost like a concentrated amount of people to actually give you feedback and say like, whoa, this is cool. We wanna buy it instead of rolling the dice and putting it on the internet and seeing and running ads and seeing if somebody likes it. Right.

Speaker 7:

Yeah. I mean, for us, my background, uh, I had a lot of contacts which did help in the green grass, which is, uh, that's basically slang for, you know, pro shops and whatnot. But so it, it initially it was helpful to kind of get some information to those people. Um, but that being said, that was very, that was preliminary. But once we got to the show and to trip's point, we had the people at the PGA show were great to give us right on the aisle kind of like a new product type location. Oh, that's cool. Buried.

Speaker 6:

Like in the back we were like, no, find you.

Speaker 7:

Yeah, no, it was, we were right. Basically right on the aisle, on the, on the entrance to the lunch area and the,

Speaker 8:

Yeah. So we got everyone,

Speaker 6:

You know, in the prime real estate. Oh yeah. Users hookups right there.

Speaker 7:

Yeah. So that was

Speaker 6:

Put you by the bathroom in the back. Yeah. Next to the next to the, whatever that, you know.

Speaker 7:

Yeah. I think that was very helpful, uh, from a traffic standpoint. But uh, but also when you have something new and different and you know, that's what gets people's attention. All, even the, even the highest end pro shops in the country, they're always looking for something different. They, they don't wanna be like the, the, the club down the street. So, uh, if you have something that's innovative, uh, it's gonna get people's attention. And if it's of high quality, then that's gonna help even more. Which, um,

Speaker 6:

Cause that's they want pro shop even, especially like the nicer pro shops want nice stuff. Right.

Speaker 7:

Exactly.

Speaker 6:

I feel like over the last couple years there's been a lot of brands and I feel that like they overlook green grass. Cause I just so focused on online retail sales. And so it's like, it's the old established way of doing business. And I think like the brands that are doing really well have, have gone back to doing both retail and putting it in green grass, you know, then just doing online. Cause I mean, I know people who like blew it up last year and they're only green grass. They like a small, a small website. They didn't do Jack, but they had a lot of green grass and I'm like, holy crap. Like that's, I think it's harder work, right? Like, I mean, seriously, you gotta establish relationships, all these people and all these golf courses, all this stuff, it's all work. Right. It's a lot of work. It's easy to throw money at an ad on Facebook.

Speaker 8:

Well, I think, yeah. And I think, I think for us it was like, alright, where, where can we be good? You know, Andrew had so many contacts in that realm that we said, we knew that we had one product that worked. That was really good. And then we started getting feedback from the pro shops and getting a ton of tr a ton of, uh, traction. And they're like, do you guys do belts? Do you guys do this? Do you guys do that? And that's where we started really building the brand that way. So we built it with kind of our core competency of, Hey look, we've got cutting edge product. That's really cool. Um, and we can build our brand this way. And then we can focus, start to focus on the retail directed, direct consumer, uh, the E eco and the like, or retail shops thereafter with our own designs. And that's where we ended up going. But I mean, we still are, you know, we still have a, a very loyal, we're very lucky. We have a very loyal, uh, customer base with, um, you know, with our large club following and clients. But no, I think going back to it, I mean, you look at, you look at the evolution too, of like pro shop and like growing up, it was always just old stodgy stuff that was in each pro shop right now. Now, I mean, you go to even, you know, some of the old school places and they have two, four shoes they've got, um, you know, you name it, that's in there. Um, that's, I think it's the evolution of, of kind of the golf market too, that people see things in retail and they're like, well, I want my club logo on that. That's where, that's where, you know, fortunately we kind of hit that groove of where that was. So

Speaker 6:

What year did you guys go to the show? Was that 17 then? Yeah,

Speaker 7:

It was 17 was our first one. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

And so then before that you had, had you had any sales yet or? No,

Speaker 7:

I think we had one or two orders. I mean, very light. It was, uh, we, we basically for your parents kinda launched with it. So yeah, it was, it was eye opening though. I mean, when we would send information around the feedback was, was immediate and it was, it was really positive, but until you're actually in front of people and you're presenting the product, uh, it's really hard to get a read and that's coming out of that show. We were like, wow, I think we, we definitely have something here. And, and how can we expand on this?

Speaker 6:

Um, so you have 17 show and then how many product lines or products did you have? Did you had the, the putter cover? Like the regular

Speaker 7:

One? Basically, basically just the one. Yeah. We just had a blade putter head cover more or less, uh, I mean with aspirations to grow from there and we had some ideas, but, uh, to trip's point, once we started establishing with the putter head covers all of the, uh, our existing customers started asking us, well, what about this product? What about that one? And

Speaker 6:

It opened to the floodgates and they give you guys ideas. Right.

Speaker 8:

And also too, you know, we, we went into this kind of as a passion project. I mean, we have no investors, it's Andrew and, and me and our, you know, basically our wives<laugh>, we're the ones who invested

Speaker 6:

The bosses.

Speaker 8:

So yeah, those, our bosses. So yeah,

Speaker 7:

You're the bosses. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 8:

So a lot of it was, Hey, do you mind if we invest in like, so, and, and you know

Speaker 6:

What I'm doing, this is like my,

Speaker 8:

And oh, by the way, I've gotta go down to Orlando for five days, uh, in January. Um, yeah. So I'll see you in five days.

Speaker 6:

Like good. Get the hell outta here,

Speaker 8:

But, uh, no, it's great.

Speaker 6:

I want a ladies trip. I wanna go on a ladies trip. You're like, go ahead. That's fine. Yeah. I gotta get some, I gotta get some brownie points,

Speaker 8:

But I mean, I think that that was the key thing. And then from there it was natural to go from mallets to belts, key fobs, wallets. Um, and I think the belts were really what, what really moved them would really move the needle from, I mean, the head covers were outstanding, but, and got us in the door and continued to get us in the door cuz they're, they're different and they're high quality and the life and the performance, but we took belts and we said, how do we get something that we would wanna wear? And you know, that's, that's really good looking, but rugged in terms of its durability and it's not gonna break and you can wear it to, you know, you know, to a party or can wear it on the golf course. And I think there was a gap in the market there and we, we jumped into that.

Speaker 6:

So that was like your progression then. So it went like, what? So, so was where was belt, I guess in that progression towards the end of that, where you're at now, but once, once you hit that, that was like the, a rocket ship, right. You're like ni are taking off it.

Speaker 8:

It was because

Speaker 6:

I seen it well,

Speaker 8:

Frankly one once we proved that we could do head covers, the rest of the stuff is fairly easy.

Speaker 6:

Um, yeah. Right.

Speaker 8:

I mean, and it's, uh, I mean it's easy once you have your supply line and your designing and, and everything, these are

Speaker 6:

Manufacturer everything.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. And so we started doing the belts and, and, you know, I think getting feedback and just the quality level was just unmatched the buckle, the ends, the, uh, the way the stitching was just, uh, unmatched. And so we took that and then, um, really then started coming out with, you know, our, our, our catalog was expanding so fast that we're having trouble keeping up with like our, our, you know, our sales teams with getting, getting the, the latest and greatest product in the catalogs. So, you know, now we, I mean, then we do trucker hats, which no one does. Um, we've got,

Speaker 6:

Yeah, I just saw that in your site. I was like, that's new. I've never seen that before.

Speaker 8:

And I think one of the cool things that we, you know, we started getting Andrew again, had some good contacts in the press, like golf magazine, golf, digest, links, magazine, golf channel, you know, they did stuff on us. We started getting a lot of press, but the, we had the product to back it up. Right. And then, um, and then we started coming out with some of our own designs and, um, that really would appeal to, you know, kind of the golf geek, if you will. And like we did, uh, template holes, which was probably, um, you know, one of our first big designs, which was based off of, you know, Seth Rainer and, uh, and CV McDonald. And we did some of their template hold designs and it, it just, it, it kind of, it was great cuz we were kids in the candy store with what we could do and being golfers the way we are. We're like, Hey, let's do this. Do, do you want to do, you know, things like that? Like, you know, we've got, I've got, I got prototype sitting on my desk right now. This is a golf Mar oh ball marker that we're gonna be coming out with. Don't tell anyone, podcasters<laugh>

Speaker 6:

Live stream right now on YouTube.

Speaker 7:

That that's a good point trip. I mean, that's the beauty of this is that, you know, we we're the brain trust at the same time and we're just pretty much just nerd golfers. We love to play. And we're serious about

Speaker 6:

So many tongue in cheek things that golfers only understand that when absolutely. And they see it, they're like, oh, that's hilarious. Like, like you, you have to explain it to somebody if they don't understand the game or the, or the movies or

Speaker 7:

Yeah. Whether it's chatty shack or yeah, of course,

Speaker 6:

You know what I'm saying? And it's like, I was telling somebody, we did a Chubbs towel and they're like, who's Chubbs. And I was like, seriously, you know what? Chubbs is like,

Speaker 8:

We have a Chubb's belt

Speaker 7:

At chubs belt. That's so funny. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

You know, it's like, you gotta, it just, I don't know it. Do you find, so like some of the designs you've done, like I just saw under site, like, did you, are you doing kind licensing deals with anybody? Like, are, are, are you able to like, how does that work? Are, are you not doing that? I was just wondering,

Speaker 7:

Uh, the only license that we did was with the, uh, the PJ of America, we did the rider cup.

Speaker 6:

That's cool.

Speaker 7:

Which was pretty exciting. Um, yeah, that was

Speaker 8:

Huge. Uh, Andrew, Andrew nailed that one for us. And that was, I mean, getting the rider cup was yeah. Was pretty darn cool.

Speaker 7:

Um, just to be involved in that event in any way, shape or form, I mean, it, it was pretty exciting, um, to be involved in, um, and, and just working with the PGA who's, you know, there're obviously a class act. Um, so it being a pure golf brand for us to be invested in, in that type of event was pretty great. Um, but, uh, you know, we've done some pretty fun stuff with, uh, as it relates to the music environment. Like with Phish, we did a, um, uh, kind of a, for people that are fans of that, um, like fish, fish. Yeah. Fishmen the print. And, um, and uh, we found that was

Speaker 6:

A college dude.

Speaker 7:

<laugh> yeah.

Speaker 8:

Well, we give a portion of the proceeds to, uh, to their foundation. You

Speaker 7:

Do. So we give 10% of all proceeds from that to the water wheel foundation, which is actually Trey Anastasio, the, uh, the lead guitars there, his, uh, his pet project for, uh, addiction and things like that. So that's, we have very good relat,

Speaker 6:

See, I've heard Phish in so long. Oh my God. That like brought me back like seriously college's

Speaker 8:

And we've got, you know, we we've, uh, different licensing deals that we do time, like we've done the BMW championship, um, PGA and, uh, you know, different universities, things like that. Um, but

Speaker 6:

You go the whole process for licensing, like the whole process. Yeah.

Speaker 8:

Like, yeah. It's, uh, it's yeah, it's laborious, but, uh, certainly, you know, you get it people, you, you gotta protect your protect, the brand and the trademark.

Speaker 6:

So, um, did you have to patent anything you're doing like your designs or like, or,

Speaker 7:

Or is that we actually did explore patenting our original pro uh, product? The,

Speaker 6:

Uh, yeah, I, I was thinking about this, right. Cause no one had done something like,

Speaker 7:

I just, we, we almost did<laugh> we probably should have, cuz it was promptly, uh, uh, ripped off unfortunately, but yeah, no, the, uh, we looked into it, but it's like, I mean, at the end of the day we basically kind of determined, you know what we're, we're gonna just go with it and, and uh, and do other products too. And it just wasn't really worth it. Um, but

Speaker 8:

Like

Speaker 6:

Cost, right. It's a huge cost involved

Speaker 7:

It's cost. And then how do you really protect it? And you know, you're gonna really Sue something.

Speaker 6:

You have a huge war chest. I mean, yeah.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. And I mean, where we focused on was obviously trademarking our, our brand and

Speaker 6:

Do that. You don't do that. You're stupid. Right.

Speaker 8:

And

Speaker 6:

I tell a lot brand, I'll talk to brands. I'm like, OHD you trademark your urgent copyright. Did you do any of this? No, no, no. I'm like, what are you doing? Right. I go, I can go write your, I can go make your logo right now and, and use it. I want to, like, I always wonder that that's kind of a balance, right? Cause you have a really cool product, but then the question is like the protection of that IP and the cost of that IP. And even if it is innovative and yes, you can get a patent for it and you spend a lot of money on top of that. You better have the war chest to like defend it. Right. Yeah. Because

Speaker 7:

It could cost you yeah. A fortune just to defend a patent with legal fees and all that stuff, obviously. So yeah. I mean the big thing to your point is you protect your, your trademark and your, all that stuff. And

Speaker 6:

That's low hanging fruit. It doesn't even cost that much money. You know? Like the, I mean, that's, that's like the, and it takes a year. Like if you do a cop, your trademark do that takes a year. I mean, from the moment you apply

Speaker 8:

Patent stuff is so tricky too, because then it's, you know, it's how much of a change have they made in the product? Does it apply? And it's like, we are like, do we really want to go down that road of consistently trying to defend

Speaker 6:

That that's all your money, time and energy. Do

Speaker 8:

We wanna spend our time

Speaker 6:

More and more and more of these? Like that's, I mean, I have this conversation with brands all the time. Like that's the balance, right? Like,

Speaker 7:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

I dunno if I had like seven patents on as one product. Right. And then,

Speaker 7:

So the goal for us is really just to kind of continue to innovate too. So it's like, I mean, we have that in our, in our portfolio and, and it's still an unbelievably great product. And, but we're always thinking ahead in the sense that like, what can be the next thing? Like what, I mean, we could, we could take anything,

Speaker 6:

It's a race, it's really a race, right? Like you could stand back there and take your time and like figure it out, but then, or not, not figure it out, but like do is do what, do what you need to do legally. Right. But then it's like, yeah, you're wasting so much time that you could be selling the new design of this and more of these other things. And it's like in 20 years from now, is that really gonna matter? That, that, that like, that's a good play if you decide to sell your brand at some point and somebody wants that IP, but it's like really,

Speaker 7:

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for us, it's about creativity and you know, what's

Speaker 6:

Yeah. The fun part of it. Like not the

Speaker 7:

Right, absolutely. Right.

Speaker 6:

Like, yeah. Like, I mean, you guys are creative tell, I mean, there's no doubt about that.

Speaker 7:

Oh, thank you. We,

Speaker 6:

I love like, like I love how you're transitioning to like, you know, you're not just doing like, oh, it's a head cover then, like you said, you went to the belts and now you're doing like, you're doing those, uh, member bags. Like those carry bags that like embroidered, like you're, you're, you're making all the right products for like that for your, for the golf world, I guess is the better way of saying

Speaker 7:

It. Yeah. And we think of it as like, what, what would we want to use too? I mean, again, being serious golfers is like, well, what, what could we use in, in, in, on our daily, uh, basis when we're playing golf, what would make it more enjoyable? And, and, you know, and then we test them too. We take'em out and any product before we bring it to market, we, we, we beat the snot out of it on the golf course and test it and make sure it's up to our standards as

Speaker 6:

Well. Well, freaking love your chubs be as here's.

Speaker 8:

Oh, we can, we can probably get you on.

Speaker 6:

I've gotta show you my chubs style. I'll show you up the show. My chubs house is sick. It's funnier now. It's like, I just love playing. That's the best part about this? I feel like is playing with the history of the game. You know what I mean? That only some person would understand what you're doing, right. Whether you're gearhead or if you like the movies or, you know, I don't know. I just think it's cool. When, what did you guys start, like going into other products and like, was it like in 2018 or did you go into new products right away? Or did you kind of like ease into it?

Speaker 7:

Uh, pretty much right away, actually. I mean, once, once we started getting some accounts and, and right after that initial PGA show, that's when we, you know, we got requests for, for new and, and different stuff. And, uh, so we, we went right to it, honestly. Yeah. I mean, I think belts and wallets, key fobs, and, you know, that type of stuff was kind of our next iteration. And then, I mean, we have weekly conversations about what what's the next thing gonna be and, and what can we do different? So

Speaker 6:

It's cool because what you're doing, you're taking needle work and you're literally putting it on whatever you think would be cool. You know what I mean? And then on top of that, pretty

Speaker 7:

Much yeah.

Speaker 6:

Aspect of it, you know, like the hats, brilliant. I've never seen that ever. I've never seen a hat like that. You

Speaker 7:

Know, we also, I mean, to your point, it's, you could pretty much put it on anything or it, and, and also we think of it as like, how could we make it better too? Like, um, we have a needle point, uh, Woodhead covers and we saw, you know, how could we take that and make it interesting? So we decided, all right, instead of just doing like a little patch of needle point, we're gonna make the entire front of the full needle point and we're gonna use the highest quality leather possible, full grain, just like buttery soft. And we're just gonna go all out and make these things as good as possible. And, um, so it's, it's doing that as well is how we, how we can make things as good as possible and different at the same

Speaker 8:

Time. Yeah. I think golf. So we were, uh, in the golf channel, did something on us and they were like, you just kind of wanna go inside of it and curl up. It's so soft and like warm. And it was like, yeah, it's, it is pretty funny. Uh, we got a good laugh outta that one. Um, but yeah,

Speaker 6:

I think a certain aspect to what you're doing too, which is very Americana. Right. Very like we remember stuff like that as a kid. Right. Like our grandparents doing needle point or parents doing needle point, like just, I don't know. I just, I think like, it, it touches to the soul or fabric of America essentially. Right. Like, and the designs you're coming out with are not just like golf related. It's like, you know, American related, if that makes sense in a way.

Speaker 7:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. I mean, our moms, that's how we, we did it. I mean, our moms, both needle pointed belts and things for us. Um, so like, you know, I think first pass from quality. We, we gave samples to our mothers and said, what do you think? And they were like, yeah, this is good quality, really good quality. You could tell it's hand stitched. And also not only that, but there are different aspects of needle point like petty point and different pieces that go into the more intricate designs that you have to do. And what it means is like smaller stitches for the more intricate design, as opposed to just doing one color swath where you can do larger stitches. So of

Speaker 6:

You're doing like, you're almost like some of literally drawing a scenery.

Speaker 8:

It's art. I mean, it is art. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

It's, it's like cross stitch. I mean, it looks like someone's cross stitched a ocean or a boat on it or whatever it might be like. Um, so what are your biggest sellers right now? Like what's the most popular, would you say of all this stuff you're building or make,

Speaker 7:

Uh, product wise? Uh, it's it's probably, uh, it's belts, uh, I think a hundred percent in, um, especially Greengrass, um, but even, even, uh, web sales as well, I think. Would you agree Tripp?

Speaker 8:

Yeah. I mean our web sales so that, I think that's kind of the evolution we went from Greengrass to then building out our website and, um, you know, hiring the team to manage that for us. And then basically doing our own designs, which, you know, we're continuing to build upon and our that's that's exploded for us and that's been, it's been outstanding. Um,

Speaker 6:

Look,

Speaker 8:

Thanks. Um,

Speaker 6:

I mean, when I met you, you had one product. It was the, it was the, it was this, that was it. I remember that. That was all you. I mean, it, you just, you had just released, you just had that. I know you made belts like the last couple years, but like,

Speaker 8:

And look, not every product or design that you come out with is a winner. Right? You come out with some stuff that you think is good and you're like

Speaker 6:

Crashes. You're like, what the hell?

Speaker 7:

That's been the biggest for me.

Speaker 6:

That's going in the world. Let me tell you,

Speaker 7:

I come up with the design and I'm like, trip, this is it, baby. People are gonna love this. And then it's like, I do another, we do another one and we think it's not gonna be that great. And that's you,

Speaker 6:

It's a numbers game. You just don't know. What's gonna make people tick. Right. Very eye you think, I think we do. And then we don't. And then the thing you didn't think would do good does great. And you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just have no idea.

Speaker 8:

Yeah.

Speaker 7:

A hundred percent.

Speaker 6:

It's so weird. Like that. It sucks. I wish I could be. It's like, it's like, you wish you were psychic essentially. Um,

Speaker 8:

So, you know, I think, but to that point, like we talked to friends of ours or, um, even like Andrew and I are in our forties, but like guys in their twenties and we look at the demographics, we're like, what would you buy? Like, what do you, what designs do you like? And you know, we have people write into us and they're like, we love it. If you designed this or did that. Or, and you know what, I don't care. As long as it's of, uh, you know, of, of a, a valid design of good taste, we'll, you know, we'll give it a shot. Um, so I think that's too,

Speaker 6:

Would you do a limited run once you have an idea, you don't go make a thousand of'em. Right. You probably do a limited run to see if they're any good. Do people really like that design. Right. And then they do, it's like, okay, cool. Let's make more. Is that how you guys do? Or you, you just build like, you know, like your MOQ, like you don't,

Speaker 8:

And that's kind of my background, my background's more in the operational side. So, uh, I cringe when, if we're gonna take on huge inventory. Uh, so we we've, I think we've, we've done it such that we do the test runs. We see how they,

Speaker 6:

I hate that feeling, dude. I,

Speaker 8:

How they work,

Speaker 6:

When you do a test run, you think it's like, you have to do whatever the MOQ is. And then it's like, it's still a big swing. Right. And it's still a chunk of change and it's not like, you know, I mean, it's not like it could be worse, but it's still,

Speaker 8:

No, it's definitely a lot of investment, but it's like, yeah. Um, you, you just do think about what works, what doesn't work and then keep tweaking it from there. And then you build your, you know, you, you put your, uh, your chips on those, on that be.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. That's and I think that's the key, right? Like it's probably that's allows you to be nimble enough so that you guys can come up with new designs, test the water, say if people like it, all right, cool. Then that's gonna be part of our, uh, catalog, essentially. If it's not, then we'll just kind of they'll fade away. Right. Like, and, and we'll Rin and repeat. And I think that gives you the advantage over the much larger companies. Right. Cuz they're just all it's different.

Speaker 8:

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 6:

So what's, what's new for you guys this year. Like what's coming out, you got, I mean, you said the ball marker, which you kind of showed might be coming out, but what else, like, is that, or is there anything else or are you guys continuing what you're working on already and new designs essentially.

Speaker 8:

So I think we, we have a number of new designs that continue account. Um, we also, uh, are working on, uh, other iterations of headware, uh, that will be coming out,

Speaker 6:

Um, should be a beanie dude then.

Speaker 8:

And then, uh,<laugh> uh, that's

Speaker 6:

My idea put down right now.

Speaker 8:

Yeah. I think, uh, we also just different types of styles of our head covers that we'll be coming out with. Um, and then, uh, yeah, it's, it's really just what we see that we want to use. And you know, there are times when Andrew and I look at, look at something we're like, well, I don't, I personally would never use it, but I see a lot of people using it, so yeah, let's go down. So, um, you know, things that are more practical in the use, uh, but also I think one of the coolest things that we've come out with are children's wear. So we came out with children's belt and hats. So, um, I have two little boys and they love our, uh, you know, we did a, a belt for zoo animals, a belt for construction trucks, and little performance hats for them. And, um, you know, I think that's where you start to see your demographics change. Cuz now we're starting to get, uh, really people of who aren't necessarily golfers who are buying our stuff, which is which

Speaker 6:

Especially like if grandma sees it or grandpa sees it and it's at a pro shop, you got it. Oh, that's cool. I'm gonna get that for Billy. Right. Or whatever mm-hmm<affirmative> and they would, that's see, it's funny cuz look where you started four years ago, essentially. Yeah. Right. And like you look at the trajectory and the direction, you probably remember, would've thought in a million years, you guys probably thought we'd be making head covers or needle point. It'd be cool to make some other stuff too, but now you're like, oh, now we're making belts for kids. Like you that's kinda like where do people want the product?

Speaker 8:

I think that's the thing too, is that there's so much, I mean, we've been really lucky. Um, obviously worked our butts off, but um, there's so much opportunity now that it's, it's a matter of, um, you know, the time investment and how you continue to scale up in that regard. Uh, so you

Speaker 6:

Know, that's, I'm really happy for you guys. Cause I mean, I thought it a cool idea when I first met you and I'm like, you're like, I mean that, I, I just remember a conversation. So I think it's really cool to see how Marty, how far you guys have grown in short, such time. So such short of a time, you know,

Speaker 8:

Well you too, Paul, you you're, uh, your company, you know, golf authority and Legion now. I mean you're, you're crushing it and uh, really appreciate, uh, all the work that you've done and all your success. So, um, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for having us on.

Speaker 6:

No, I'm happy. I'm really, I, I love it. I, I think it's cool. You guys have a really special niche and I think like I don't see anybody coming close to you in, in regards to this and I know it's a good market like belts, especially needle point belts are sick. So, um, thank you. Well, I, why say thank you for being on the show today, you guys, where can they find you? If you're looking for you guys on the internet

Speaker 8:

Needle, golf.com and Instagram at needle golf, uh, and um, really, uh, you can find us probably in your, your pro shop or online, or, um, maybe soon to come some retail stores as well. We're we're growing the retail side as well. So the brick and mortar as well as the e-com so yeah.

Speaker 6:

Well, great. Well, I will see you guys in the next episode.

Speaker 8:

Thank you very much. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast, you're gonna beat me a golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment. Golf is always more fun when you win, stay out of the beach and see you on the green.