Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

#75 - Kraken Golf: Marc Cordeira (Founder)

May 10, 2022 Paul Liberatore Season 3 Episode 75
Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore
#75 - Kraken Golf: Marc Cordeira (Founder)
Show Notes Transcript

We made it to Episode 75 of the Behind the Golf Brand Podcast.  In this week's episode, I interview my good friend Marc Cordeira, founder of Kraken Golf. 

In the summer of 2015, Marc Cordeira bought a Grizzly G0704 mill and converted it to a CNC after watching a few YouTube videos. That is where his passion for being a maker began! He decided to combine my new love of machining with an old passion – GOLF. From there he started a brand called NXT18Golf, where he machined custom belt buckles that helped golfers express themselves on the golf course. Seven machines later with a new brand called Kraken Golf, he has turned his attention to other golf items with the idea of being very disruptive in this space – pushing boundaries in the world of golf with the hopes of opening the game to a new, diverse audience.

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Today we play golf.

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Let me show you how we do it in the pros.

Speaker 3:

Yeah . Welcome to behind the golf brand podcast. I never missed with the seven nine a conversation with some of the most interesting innovators and entrepreneurs behind the biggest names in golf.

Speaker 4:

My friends were the golf clubs. I lived on the golf course. I lived on the driving range

Speaker 3:

From pro talk . You should learn something from each and every single round you play to fun from on and off the green. Why would you play golf? You don't play it for money. Just let me put the ball in a hole. This is behind the golf brand podcast with Paul liberatory .

Speaker 5:

What's up guys, Paul from golfer's authority. Welcome to the behind the golf brand podcast. This week, we are on episode 75, which is crazy. Um , and this week I also have my good friend mark Cordera from cracking golf . I've been a fan of cracking for a long time. And I literally remember like talk . I can remember the day I talked to mark for the first time and I was all excited. Cause I was like, I think his , what he does with just everything really? When it comes like he does leather goods, he does ball markers, debit tools, like , you know, it's high quality. It's almost like art to be honest. So we started talking probably two and a half years ago. Um, and we reviewed one of their, I think we reviewed the , a tool and it it's the it's awesome. So I'm really excited to have 'em on the show because these grown crazy since then, I'm really happy to have 'em here. So welcome to the show today.

Speaker 6:

Thank you, Paul. Appreciate it .

Speaker 5:

So where do you live ?

Speaker 6:

Um , Christian at Massachusetts. So about an hour south of Boston and local folks will say we're not part of Cape Cod until you get over the bridge . Uh , <laugh> so close to Cape Cod, but not technically on Cape Cod.

Speaker 5:

Aren't you guys close the Snell ? Isn't smell down the street from you somewhere.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. Um, uh , Dean's actually a member of the same country club as me, but yeah, he's here in new , in new Bedford area.

Speaker 5:

Um, Dean's really cool. I he's funnier, man. He is so funny. Um, I had him on the show, like, I don't know , a year ago and his stories about like , first of all, it's like, he was telling stories about hockey and getting in fights at the golf course. And it was just like, like his , like his first time ever playing golf with his dad, like ever, he was like in college. And like he said that, he said he hit his balls in the woods and he wanted to go for his ball. And then these guys hit up on his dad and his dad got. And then these guys, like, he turned around that's him and his dad, his dad, and these guys were fighting on the fairway and like, and then he jumped in on it. Like that's his first memory of golf? Like for real, I was like, I was not expecting that at all, but

Speaker 6:

That's like a new Bedford type of thing. That's kind , where is it ?

Speaker 5:

Yeah . You don't mess with up bro. Like hit up on to that , bro. Like you'll hit up on us. He's like, I , he goes, I didn't even like hockey . I didn't even like golf back then. Like he just he's a hockey player. Like that's all he did. Um, so is it cold as hell there right now? Cause I thought there's like some big blizzard coming or something.

Speaker 6:

No , it's actually like 55 today. So for us in March, that's a treat. So yeah ,

Speaker 5:

We have like some kind of cyclone bomb, snow thing. Or is that not by you guys? That

Speaker 6:

Was , uh , that was last weekend. But you know, literally the day before that it was 60 and the next day it was 20 with a pone bomb .

Speaker 5:

So it's just , would you like the weird weather of March essentially? Like yeah.

Speaker 6:

Well it's supposed to be all fifties next week, which is just weird, but what will happen is next weekend, there'll be a snowstorm after a week of fifties. That's just how it goes. But yeah,

Speaker 5:

It's coming though. Spring's coming. Yeah . It's got , you gotta see the hard part .

Speaker 6:

I'm gonna get out and play some golf next week. Hopefully. So take advantage really? Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5:

So you're not a golf pro, right?

Speaker 6:

No, not at all. <laugh> do you ,

Speaker 5:

Did you play golf? Did you play golf, like growing up or did you play golf in high school or what?

Speaker 6:

Uh, no. No. Um, I started playing golf probably when I was 19 ly . Now I'll date myself 25 years or so now

Speaker 5:

Did you grow up in that area?

Speaker 6:

Yeah, I , I grew up in a cushion net , moved away for a couple years with my wife and then , uh , we moved back to a cushion net , uh , four , five years ago.

Speaker 5:

So where'd you guys live? Where'd you guys move to ,

Speaker 6:

Uh , small town called Attleboro , which is north of Providence, Rhode Island, but still in Massachusetts.

Speaker 5:

So you stayed in like that area, your whole life? Yeah,

Speaker 6:

Yeah,

Speaker 5:

Yeah. Born and red .

Speaker 6:

Yeah. Never leave .

Speaker 5:

So what made you get, I mean, have you always been artistic? Like what made you decide that , Hey, I want to start making golf stuff.

Speaker 6:

Um, so like I said, I played for years, but it's funny that when I , when I start , I started milling or machining probably, I don't know , 10 years ago now. Um, I started a brand called next 18 golf. It's still out on Instagram. The , I don't, I don't do anything with it anymore, but , um , me and a , a buddy of mine were partners and we basically built a , a golf belt type company. We did custom golf belts for schools and stuff like that, all machine, but it started a little bit before that I bought a , a grizzly G 4, 3 0 7 , I think it was drill press. And I saw it on YouTube, just like laying in bed with my wife one night and uh , some guy was machining something on it. And uh, so it was just a drill press. I converted it to a CNC mill with a conversion crap . Real . Yeah . Holy crap. All in , it was like 3000 bucks and my wife thought I was crazy for spending $3,000 on this thing that went in the corner of my garage and she couldn't get her car in anymore and started making golf belt buckles off of this thing. Um , terrible machine. I , I shouldn't say terrible, but you know, it is what it is for 3000 bucks and

Speaker 5:

You get to pay for

Speaker 6:

That's all I could afford at time. I had no skills. I'm not a machine grade or anything like that. So I figured it all out on YouTube and just started milling belt buckles and grew that business. I think we got up to like 12,000 users , uh , our followers on Instagram and then , um,

Speaker 5:

That's pretty good.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It was just, it was two years of craziness. And

Speaker 5:

What year was this?

Speaker 6:

This is probably 20 15, 20 16 around there.

Speaker 5:

Before that were you into like CNC stuff or not really? You just saw it . You're like, oh , it's cool. I could do something cool with that.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I just, I mean, I , I saw it one day on YouTube. I thought it was cool. It's like, oh , I wanna fool around with this machine. See what I can do with it. And

Speaker 5:

Yeah,

Speaker 6:

That was it. So , uh , and now I'm 10 CNC machines later. <laugh> here at Kraken and uh , you know, much bigger, you know, production level machines now, not hobby level machines. I mean, that wasn't even a hobby level machine. It was a , that

Speaker 5:

Was even a drill press dude . Yeah . That was even like, <laugh> like seriously. That's like, that's like redneck CNC right there. Yeah .

Speaker 6:

He's those total science experiment, you

Speaker 5:

Know ? Yeah . Like , come on,

Speaker 6:

I'm gonna convert this thing to a mill. And I would sit there literally with a little spray CLA can of like lubricant and spray it every, so the bit wouldn't like melt down and , or stick into the metal. Uh , yeah, it was, it was really hands on . Like

Speaker 5:

How would you , how do you turn into it ? Okay . It was okay. Like I did some CNC stuff like in college. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like , I learned about how to do stuff. Like I used to be an aviation. Right. So we , I was like, how do aviation CNC essentially . Yeah . And so like what I remember back then, it was like early, early, early days. It was like the nineties dude, like , like nothing was that tack . Right. I think we had to use, like, it was like , I mean, it was there probably nothing. It is nowadays, but how do you do, like , how do you even do a belt? Do you have to , if you , if you have like a drill press, you convert, like you can manually do that or like, is it like programmable and it does do it for you? Or how does that happen? Well,

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It , so with the , uh , with the addon to it, to convert it to a CNC, it was basically just for engraving machine. So I would take little billets of aluminum. I would cut it to a rectangle shape. Um, I would buy those little screw on things in the back that make it a belt buckle essentially, you know , onto the strap and all that. But the CNC part, all I would do is engrave like whatever the college logo or whatever logos they wanted, they wanted , that's all I used the CNC for it . Wasn't actually machining a belt buckle, you know, you know, a high end .

Speaker 5:

Yeah, yeah . Customizing a piece of aluminum.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It was , it was a rectangular piece of aluminum with an engraving on it. And I, I screwed on a belt buckle attachment on the bat . So I mean, this is really primitive stuff, you know , uh ,

Speaker 5:

Compared to what , but that , that was programmable or no, that was a

Speaker 6:

More, no, it was programmable for the engraving,

Speaker 5:

You know? So then how did that work? Is it like a , what kind of file is that? Is that like a , um ,

Speaker 6:

I used , uh , fusion 360, which I still use today. Um, so same CAD program , um, that I used today, but I mean for engraving, easy, you know, no big deal.

Speaker 5:

So you did that, you had a partner, how long you said you only did that for a couple years.

Speaker 6:

We did it for a couple years. And then, I mean, I , it was mostly me hands on . He, he did a lot of the financing of everything. Um , yeah . You know, the marketing, all that type of stuff. Um, and then I had, you know, dreams of cracking. Right. I wanted big machines , uh , lasers, like, you know, heavy duty equipment and, you know, and he was just, you know, he was different than that with me. He was more conservative in terms of what he wanted to purchase and what money he wanted to put into it. And, you know , at some point I just, you know, I needed to do my own thing, you know?

Speaker 5:

Yeah. And you wanted to do something different really is what it was. Right. Yeah . And kinda build something new and

Speaker 6:

Him and I , best of friends, we, you know , he's my biggest golf buddy. We just went, had a trip down to Florida to the PGA show to together. So, oh ,

Speaker 5:

That's cool.

Speaker 6:

You know , we're cool. And all, but you know, I had to go do my thing, you know,

Speaker 5:

Bro, your stuff is so good. It's not even funny.

Speaker 6:

<laugh>

Speaker 5:

I can't , I'm on your website right now while you're talking. And it's like, you're the level of what you've where you were even two and a half years ago until you're at now is like night and day. And you were good back then does that,

Speaker 6:

Don't say six months ago. So like

Speaker 5:

It blows my mind, the stuff you're making. I'm like, how does it even do that metal? Like I like , it just blows my mind. Like I'm , I don't know . Um ,

Speaker 6:

I'm trying to overengineer it as much as possible on purpose. <laugh> that's my goal every day . How can I make a ball marker more intricate and needlessly more intricate than it already is. And if I can

Speaker 5:

That that's , it's not basic at all. It's not like some cheap, like it looks so good. Oh my God. All right . We'll get that in a minute. What'd you do with next 18? I mean , you try , you sold the Instagram account, but you don't really do anything with it and whatever. Right. I , I guess would , would , Would Cracken ever do belts buckles?

Speaker 6:

Um, I have, I've done two or three releases with belt buckles. Not much, not much at all. Is ,

Speaker 5:

Is everything kind of a test for you where like you'll make a small run, right ? Cause everything you do is limited run and you'll go, oh yeah, this worked or not worked . I don't wanna do that no more. Or you know, like people not really into belt buckles or you know, like how you do it.

Speaker 6:

I think belt buckles are so 2015 <laugh>

Speaker 5:

Before that , I think it's like 2009 , the 2012 . Yeah . Like

Speaker 6:

There's companies just still do it. And , and there's some PGA pros that, you know , wear custom buckles and so forth. But , um, and

Speaker 5:

Casual ,

Speaker 6:

I just don't find 'em interesting anymore. Um , that that's the one problem with me is I get bored real quick. So that's why I have literally a new product every single week. Because if I were make the same thing over and over again, I'd go crazy. So , uh , I even go crazy making 30 or 50 or something like I'm already have an idea for the next one

Speaker 5:

30 Jones in for the next one already think of something while making something and you're like, oh, that'd be cool.

Speaker 6:

Oh yeah. You know , if I had no discipline, I would stop mid run and move to the next thing. Cause I , you know, I'll think of something that's cooler already, you know? <laugh> so,

Speaker 5:

So

Speaker 6:

Tough business model though. Cause literally I make a new product every single week. So it's really , yeah. I never remake anything if I do it's there's some sort of variation to it, but once it's made , it's done and we move on .

Speaker 5:

Like I would say right now you're the very first quote unquote artist I've had on the show. Right? Like I've worked a lot of artsy brands and this is not a bad thing. Right? Like custom, custom, putter, custom, whatever. But like your stuff is just so good. Like it blows my mind like, like this is not his full-time job. Right. I , he told me that again today I forgot like this is not your fulltime job. Right. Like you do something else. Correct.

Speaker 6:

Right. Yeah. I know I have a corporate job. So

Speaker 5:

He's a corporate job. Like you , I thought like mark was doing his full-time. Cause I mean, cuz you look at it what he does and you realize how much time it really takes to customize this stuff and make it look that good. And it's like, you would you'd think, oh, he'd have to be doing this full time or have full , you know? And it's like, no

Speaker 6:

On the , well , well I , so I , I probably spend a good 60 hours a week of

Speaker 5:

Yeah. I mean , but like you can spend a hundred hours a week on it,

Speaker 6:

At least 60. If you throw up my wife, I'd cut it down a bit. But like , you know , I just, yeah it's I love doing it. So like 60 hours goes by like literally, like it feels like 10 hours. Like I could keep doing it.

Speaker 5:

Well it's all love. Right? It's passion. It's like,

Speaker 6:

Well a hundred percent .

Speaker 5:

It's all it is. Right. There's no stress to this. Right. I mean, the stress is like after you make, I gotta make some money. My wife's gonna kill me. Cause I go and buying stuff like the normal stuff

Speaker 6:

It's like is meeting deadlines. So like, you know, if you ask people that follow me now, I don't do quite as much custom as I did before. Just because making one of one is like crazy <laugh> you know? Uh , so you know , to set up the mill to make one item, it's just, you know, it's just not worth it when you think about it. So I've stopped doing that quite as much. I mean, there's some simple things I'll do like, you know, I I've made a bunch of round mill markers they're on the shelf and if someone wants something, laser engraved on it, not a big deal. Um, but you know, a whole piece that's completely different shape or something along those lines. I I've stopped doing it. I just, I , I can't justify it anymore . You know, I just don't have the time or the bandwidth for it .

Speaker 5:

So I guess let's talk about the evolution of crack . And so then what year? So what year did Kraken start?

Speaker 6:

Um , 2017, November, 2017.

Speaker 5:

And then did you, at that point, did you buy, did you have a different CNC machine, not your janky ghetto on at that point

Speaker 6:

<laugh> I had , uh , I started up with a , a , to mark , to mark P four 40, which is a hobbyist machine, high , high end hobby . What

Speaker 5:

That , like what ? That cost ? I have no idea what , what that kind of machine like that would cost

Speaker 6:

Fully loaded.

Speaker 5:

It's five

Speaker 6:

Grand , like 12 , 15 grand fully loaded.

Speaker 5:

Whoa.

Speaker 6:

So,

Speaker 5:

Okay. So then you get that and you said I'm gonna start making something. What was the first thing you made?

Speaker 6:

I think it was a money bag ball marker . So shaped like a money bag . Um, and it was just, you remember that? I think it was paint filled . Maybe it was either paint fill or there was no fill , it was just bras and with an engraving. And that was it.

Speaker 5:

So then how many of those did you make

Speaker 6:

At the time ? Oh , no, probably like 10 20 .

Speaker 5:

Cause it's a cost of material, right? Like what does material cost right now? Like when you make a ball marker , what does it cost

Speaker 6:

Right now? It's crazy expensive with, you know , post COVID and all that stuff. But um, you know , back in the day, not, not quite as much. I mean, you get a sheet of bras at the time. Um, it was probably a , a six inch by six inch sheet and I would cut out like nine ball markers out of that. And so that sheet would probably be $25 if I remember. Right.

Speaker 5:

But then I , that's not dumb questions. I don't know how this world works. Right. So like, do you , do you buy this? Do you buy the material? Like from a distributor or like there's like craft store, you know what I'm saying? Not craft store, but you know what I mean? Like , yeah . I don't know . Like how would you buy big piece of metal to make stuff?

Speaker 6:

Uh , it depends what type of metal, but I , I get a lot of stuff from vendors online. Uh , they have online marketplaces. You can buy bar stock in

Speaker 5:

Quantity, raw material, right?

Speaker 6:

Absolutely. And then , and then leather there's everything's online. I , I , I don't go anywhere. I buy everything online and it gets shipped to my door. I don't have time to go to a store no

Speaker 5:

Way. Yeah .

Speaker 6:

Going to the post office is even problematic some days . So

Speaker 5:

Are you doing all your own shipping?

Speaker 6:

Yes,

Speaker 5:

I had , I did it all last year with , with my brand dude that , oh my God . I spent so many hours. I think one day I spent six hours just filling packages. It was like the worst use of your time. Right?

Speaker 6:

Sometimes my daughter helps me. So anybody that gets packages and the labels a little off centered that's cuz she packaged it. If I package it, it'd be perfect. Cause I'm weird. But uh , <laugh> she just slaps a label on it's like it's a packaged day . I don't care .

Speaker 5:

<laugh> I think that's what my labels look like towards the end of me putting 'em on, I'm getting tired of doing it . I'm like, these are not gonna care if their dumb label looks like there doesn't happen . Open the bag up , you know? Like when did you like started upgrading the machine after that? Like you , like, how long do you wait to upgrade a machine? Like, do you wait like so much time or so much money you make? Or like, I , I have no idea.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. You , I mean it was money driven and then production, right? So like on , on the to mock , I was literally making one or two pieces at a time. It's a small table. You can't fit like multiple devices on it or anything like that. So you , as you can imagine, I was cranking out literally one tool at a time. Um, and the other thing with the Tomo , it I'll get a little bit technical here. It didn't have a , a tool changer . So every time I had to move to a different tool, different size tool, a ball end mill , a square end mill , I would have to stop the machine or the machine would stop. I would go in there, change the tool out and then run a program, pick

Speaker 5:

The Chuck and like I'd take out the thing manually.

Speaker 6:

Yeah . It would take forever to produce 10 ball markers , you know? So, and then, you know, at the speeds were slower on a machine like that , uh , et cetera . So , uh , I bought my first Haas three years ago. I think it was three years ago now, two , two and a half . And now I have two , uh , and these are production level machines with, with tool changers . And you know, I can have like

Speaker 5:

Super fast,

Speaker 6:

Super fast, six vices on 'em . Um , I have a cm one , which is like the best thing ever , uh , from Haas and you , most of the time people use it in like the dental industry or jewelry industry. It's super fast, 50,000 RPMs. And I , I use all my, all my D tools and ball markers are milled on that because it's so fast. Um , and you know, something like brass or copper, it just beats the crap outta that stuff. Like real quick, like I'll , I'll get like six tools done in like 20 minutes, opposed to, you know , in the old days was like an hour to do one tool with all .

Speaker 5:

Now it's more about time. It's not about efficiency of time, like it's money and time. Right. It's kinda like that balance

Speaker 6:

It's money time. And then also because it spins at 50,000 RPM, I can use really, really small tools and fast , um, so I can get more intricate designs. Um oh, wow . So yeah. So yeah, time efficiency and intricacy , um , are

Speaker 5:

So as you grow the brand, it's like, that's the balance for you, right? Like, you know , initially it's more , you put more time cause you have less money and then you get more money, then you buy more pro you buy more machinery and then you start upgrading that machinery. And then it's like, you know , and that's kind of , that's kind the flow, right? Yeah.

Speaker 6:

I mean, so you , you do it to increase grease productivity. But for me, the biggest reason for buying machines is to get more and more intricate. And how can I differentiate? People

Speaker 5:

Want

Speaker 6:

From everybody else? Right? Like , so everybody has mills now, you know? And at this point it seems like everybody's got lasers now for that matter . Um , geez .

Speaker 5:

I laser are really

Speaker 6:

Cheap . Oh , not mine, but yeah.

Speaker 5:

There's some cheap. Oh , well, no. I mean like you can get cheap stuff that people can do

Speaker 6:

On . Yeah . For 6,000 bucks you can get a decent fiber laser that will do engravings all day long for you . You know, for me, it's just like, what's the next thing I can buy. That will separate me from everybody else. So, so last week I bought it ,

Speaker 5:

Quality's like impeccable man. Like <laugh> , I mean, like it shows, right? Cause when you look at the designs, we can kind over 'em a little bit, but like, I , I can't believe you do what you did on something that small and it looks that good. Like you had this one. I'll remember, I remember this. I don't have it. But like you did like a fish one like these like Japanese COI looking thing. Remember that one? Yeah. Cause that was the cool thing I'd ever seen. That looks like a piece like a painting, you know, like the detail and that , and I , I think I, like, I must have posted that or I saw it . I saw it somewhere . Like I reposted it . I thought it was so cool of what you did. Thank you . Um , I don't even know how you would do that. Like, cause I mean they got the ball marker , right? I mean, how big is that? Big is a quarter.

Speaker 6:

Yeah.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. That's insanity. Like, I mean , so who does the design work for? Are you coming? Are you drawing that, are you find it? Like I , how

Speaker 6:

Do you it's a combination. So I'll , I'll find, I , I find a lot of inspiration on print Pinterest . So I spend a lot of time on Pinterest just looking at art and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, yeah . In some instances I'll download something, I'll buy an image off somebody. Sometimes I'm free hand drawing stuff. It depends on what it is. Right. What I'm trying to achieve. I mean, there's so many options. And then the , the biggest thing is you gotta convert it to machine code or to laser code or

Speaker 5:

You do that, like to hire somebody.

Speaker 6:

No, that's me. I mean , I don't hire anybody <laugh> I wish I did, but no, it's just all me, but I mean, yeah. I mean it's the

Speaker 5:

Biggest you get inspired. Right? You'll get inspired by something you see and you'll either, I mean, are you an artist naturally?

Speaker 6:

I don't like to call myself that. I , I feel like that's, I don't know. I'm weird about that. I don't , I don't like that

Speaker 5:

Name. Yeah. But if you draw, I mean you could draw.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I draw. And uh, yeah. I mean I create every day , every week, every

Speaker 5:

Day you're an artist, bro. Just, just say it you're an artist. Like I don't all that. I don't even know who your competition is, honestly. Um,

Speaker 6:

No , there's a lot of good guys in the spa . That's one thing I will say that , that that's important to me is there's a lot of guys in the space that do what I do and we all share like behind the scenes, we all share. Yeah .

Speaker 5:

Competitors. No, it's like your allies. You're like ,

Speaker 6:

I root for everybody. I mean the more people we can bring into the space that wanna collect the things that we make , uh , I'll root for anybody to , to do well here, you know, like,

Speaker 5:

Okay . Kinda ,

Speaker 6:

You know , I , one guy I talked to a lot is , uh , is Olson, Olson, manufacturing. So he's a cool guy. We share stuff all the time. He makes incredible putters. Like, and , and it's our , I

Speaker 5:

Think California,

Speaker 6:

He's in California Northern . I think

Speaker 5:

It's gone for him a long time ago,

Speaker 6:

But he's a good guy. Uh we'll bounce things off each other.

Speaker 5:

Oh yeah . I remember . Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Uh , but, and that's what this space is. And I , I root for everybody because I mean, for me, the biggest thing is like, how do we grow the game of golf? Right? And the more people that want to collect our stuff is more customers for all of us. You know? Because once you get one piece that , you know, you don't stop there. You want more, like you wanna see what the next cool piece is from somebody. So it's a friendly competition, but at the same time, you want everybody to succeed because its ,

Speaker 5:

But there's also respect for too , right? Like you're oh that's cool. Whoa how'd you do that? You know that . Are it , do you guys with those other guys, do you guys, like, I was , I don't wanna use the word collaborate, but like kind of ask questions like, Hey how'd you get that blah, blah, blah. You know?

Speaker 6:

Oh, absolutely. Uh , guys all the time, I'm more than happy to share what I've learned. You know?

Speaker 5:

I love yeah.

Speaker 6:

So yeah.

Speaker 5:

You've always asked me that they're always like, well, who are your competitors? I'm like, I don't really think about that. Like I feel like anybody, who's not like the big, big, big, big boys are, you know, they're my allies, not my competitors. Like yeah , we're all doing the same thing. We're creating content. So it's like, yeah, we'll share, figure how we did it.

Speaker 6:

I'm just a little guy in Massachusetts. That's making some stuff. Right. But all of us together growing that golf, collectible type niche that helps all of us, you know, more people that collect

Speaker 5:

The more including an industry that wasn't there five, six years ago, no one was, you know, people were collecting, but they were collecting like sky Cameron's right. Or like mass manufactured company made cool stuff. But there wasn't like niche products being made. You know, you see that with the putters in the last five years and the wedges, right? Yes . Like custom, like, you know the stuff that, with what you've done though, like you started making small stuff, right? Like accessories ball , markers, D tools. But now you're moving into other goods too. Like you've made putters now and you're making leather goods and it's like, you just keep on expanding on what you're making. So it shows to me it's like, your creativity is in endless man, because it's not like, oh I'm the ball marker guy. And I make cousin ball markers . Yeah . It's like, no, I wanna , I make cool stuff. And I just wanna make cool stuff.

Speaker 6:

Well , it it's funny though. You it's just like you get in those. I have those days where I wake up and I, I don't have a creative bone in my body and it's funny. Cause I'll tell my wife, I'm like, I'm just done with this whole thing. I can't think of anything anymore. I'm just done . I'm gonna quit. <laugh>

Speaker 5:

Yeah.

Speaker 6:

Right. She's like shut up . <laugh>

Speaker 5:

That crap outta my garage . I wanna park in the garage again .

Speaker 6:

Yeah , exactly . I wife

Speaker 5:

Like my wife , she's like super supportive for real like Yeah, you wouldn't be doing this for if our wives weren't supportive, what we're doing. Um, I mean, seriously, this is my garage dude. Like I turned my entire garage into a studio essentially

Speaker 6:

With , with the same . Then my , my garage is a mill shop. <laugh> I mean , this is, this used to be my dining room now it's my office. So <laugh>

Speaker 5:

So what gave you the idea for the cracking color or crayon thing? Cause that was sick . I know C crayon, but like, like that just how'd you even come with that dude that is nuts.

Speaker 6:

Um, I , I just woke up one day and I was like, I need to make a di tool this week. And I don't know . I saw a crayon on the desk or something. I was like , I can make a tool outta that . I just changed the tip, make it a little bit. And there we go.

Speaker 5:

Crack . And it's so Crayola.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. So the fir it's funny. The first two releases of crayons were hard metals. They were copper and they were , uh , carbon steel. So the carbon steel one was torched blue to be like a blue crayon. And then the , uh , the copper one, I just darkened it to make it look like a , a brown crayon. And then I got the idea from there, like why don't I make them in aluminum? Which I normally don't work in aluminum. Um, cause I kind of look down on aluminum, but cuz it's easy to machine. It's not, it's just fast

Speaker 5:

To you. It's not challenging.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I don't know . It's just to me, it's not as valuable as of a metal it's brass or stainless steel or something like that. But the great thing with aluminum though is it's lightweight. So if you like something in your pocket, it's not gonna weigh you down. Uh , and the other thing is it , it lends itself for an energizing . So that's where all the colors come from.

Speaker 5:

Like the red, I think, I think we'd reviewed the red one. Yeah .

Speaker 6:

Well

Speaker 5:

You said to me , you said to somebody on my team, you sent to Damon back on the day. So I still , I still even have a fricking cracking item in my bag, which makes me really sad . And That Anyways, we'll talk about that later, but so how many colors of crays have you done then now?

Speaker 6:

I think I've done the whole rainbow of colors. So it's see red, blue, green,

Speaker 5:

Yellow. Do you know , be so freaking sick if you did a gift set right. Of those. And like you've made it into a box , like those Cray boxes and you put crack on the front and you had like 12, 12 of 'em in there . I mean you could sell 'em for like 200 5300 bucks . Right. And it'd be like, that would be, I would , that would be ,

Speaker 6:

I've already been there. I actually have a case of crayon boxes with crack and logos on it and I just killed it . Wasn't into it . No , I just , I was looking at it . I'm like, you know

Speaker 5:

The holidays you had do the holidays call for reals.

Speaker 6:

Well, I was thinking about doing like a catch pack. So I get people reach out to me all the time that MI , you know, found cracking recently and they're like, oh, I missed all these crayons. I want all these crayons. Right. And now I was thinking, well maybe I'll do a , a ketchup pack , you know , but , or , but

Speaker 5:

You could do like a , you could do like a , a , oh , what's the word? Not a throwback, but like, you know, like limit release of something that was one of your best sellers, quote unquote , you know what I mean? Or I'm not trying to sound gimmicky, but like, cuz some of that stuff is cool as hell, man. I bet like people see it , they start going through your Instagram feed and they probably get sad and they're like, oh man, that is the coolest thing. Well

Speaker 6:

It's funny . You only see the good stuff. Right? You don't know how many times I've screwed up. <laugh>

Speaker 5:

What happens if you screw up? That's a great question.

Speaker 6:

It happens all the time . It happens every

Speaker 5:

Day to melt it down. Do you just ,

Speaker 6:

Usually I have a bone in my shop of just stuff that's never seen the market, you know? Like yeah . I'll make something. I think it's cool. And then it's finished and I look at it , I'm like, I don't like this onto ,

Speaker 5:

Can you go to like a recycle center, have melted down for you?

Speaker 6:

Uh , you can. I used to do that a lot. I don't, I don't have as much waste anymore as I used to. I don't, I , I

Speaker 5:

Got better. You better machinery and you're only not,

Speaker 6:

Well it's funny. Cause guys ask me all the time, like, can I have the prototype of that item? And I'm like, I don't , I don't make too many prototypes anymore because it's like, I feel like,

Speaker 5:

Like either I make it and it's crap. I toss it. Why would I give that away? Or if we make, if I make it and it's good, I'm gonna sell it . Like that's

Speaker 6:

Yeah . I I'm brave. Now in the sense, like I'll , I'll say like I'm gonna do 50 of something. I'll make two take pictures of it and throw it online, sell it. And I still gotta make 48 more of them , you know? And so

Speaker 5:

That's another good question right there. Like, so how do you do it now? Like you come up with an idea right. Of whatever. And then you make two let's say, is that what you do? And then post it and be like, Hey, what do you guys think? Or , or do you say I'm gonna release this only making 50? Like what's your process for that?

Speaker 6:

Um, I, I don't usually ask for permission. I don't usually ask for feedback cause I feel like I , I know my audience now. Um , yeah . So I , I just make it and I usually will make whatever the first batch is, whether it's 6, 10, 12 on a machine, take a photo of those first couple that come off and say, Hey, this is going off on Tuesday. And then , um, so one thing I do do that, you know, your audience audience might be interested in knowing is , um, I sell to my email audience first. Uh, so all my email subscribers, they get an email. Uh , usually the day of that I'm gonna release something that evening only for them I'll get . And I'll put aside usually 75% of what I'm gonna make. Um, I'll sell it to them and then whatever's left. I'll sell the next day to the general public and I'll do a , a release. They'll be on Instagram. But you'll notice a lot of times when I do that post there'll be people on there as soon as the post comes out, got it already got mine. And, and the sales not until like later that night and people will , will like DM me. Like how does he have one if the sales tonight at eight and I'll be , oh , he's an email subscriber. So he bought it last night . Yeah. So I, you know , email subscribers get first access. They get 75% of what I make first. And then 25% is left for

Speaker 5:

You, give him like a small discount. They buy it like, oh, you get 5% off or something.

Speaker 6:

No, I , well, for new subscribers , um, they'll get an email, they'll get 10% off their first purchase. Yeah . Um , but I , I don't run sales. I mean, not ,

Speaker 5:

You know, the value of what you're making and you have so many to make and it's like, I'm gonna sell these to you guys. I'm gonna sell it to the general public. That's it? I mean, I only , I didn't buy a thousand of these from China. There's only 2012 have been made, you know, like , or however many you make, like you already kind of know.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It's usually 30 to 50 . The largest release I ever had was a crayon. There was a , um, the 4th of July crayon I did last year, which was red, white and blue. I did 75 of those. And then , um,

Speaker 5:

How fast that sell out though? Cause you sell pretty fast, right? Like do you never not sell out? I mean ,

Speaker 6:

I've never had an item , not sell out , usually sells out in two or three minutes . Um , something that's doesn't resonate as well, usually takes 15 minutes. But uh ,

Speaker 5:

You created something though, you created a market, man. You created demand on something that didn't exist and that people just know how quality of what you're doing and they want it and they wanna collect it because they value what you're doing. Right. Like that's

Speaker 6:

It . I hope so . Anyways. I mean, you know, for me like being a perfectionist, I see flaws in every single light I made you do . I mean, I , I just did , uh , skull and cross bone marker last night and today actually it's on right now. I don't know how it's doing, but uh, I mean I see flaws in that E everything can be made better, you know? And that's like, one of my goals every day is how can I make this thing better than the last thing I made? Like, did I , you learn every

Speaker 5:

Day , bro, you had almost 30,000 followers now. like you didn't have, like when I met you, you had like two or three

Speaker 6:

<laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 5:

And that's crazy is the only thing you're posting is you're posting your own stuff. Right. So that's like, that's crazy that people are following you because they're like, oh, this is awesome. Yeah. I mean, seriously, like that's CRA

Speaker 6:

Well , thank you. It's it's a lot of work, but yeah. I , I only post my own stuff. I don't post anything else . I don't

Speaker 5:

Post. Yeah. You're not looking for

Speaker 6:

Memes or anything .

Speaker 5:

No.

Speaker 6:

Or, you know , page SP act or anything like that. <laugh>

Speaker 5:

I mean, dude, so like I may ask many questions about some of these designs, right? Like, okay. When you do this monopoly marker, right. You just monopoly , um , D tool. Yeah . Kind of like monopoly. Right? Do you have to worry about monopoly saying, oh, you took our picture of our guy and put on a , on a D tool or you're like, yeah . It's artwork . Like, and it's only it's art. Like I don't know how that works.

Speaker 6:

So when something like that, I always alter the image. Right . I , I never take an image exactly as is. So I added my spin to it, but whatever. I mean, things would happen to me before. So like Tom Bradys come after me. I've gotten , uh , <laugh> from his attorney. I got a , uh , cease and desist letter in the mail one day.

Speaker 5:

For what, what did you do for a Tom Brady ?

Speaker 6:

So this is probably, this is probably four years ago. I made a ball marker and a tool and I put TB 12 on it , his brand . And I sent it to him at the stadium. Right. Just outta the blue. Just like trying to

Speaker 5:

As a fan . Yeah . I'm a big fan. Love you. Heres , I made this for you.

Speaker 6:

Yeah . And you know, if you want anything for your teammates or anything like that, you I'll hook you up whatever you want. You know? And then, so I just sent to Tim, I made one, I sent to Tim, that was it. I didn't sell them online, do anything like that. And uh , and then I got cease and desist letter in the mail from Tom ye who's his , I guess his lawyer and his agent saying, you know , how many of these did you sell? And we want, you know, you know , a backlog of all your orders. And I'm like, I made one, I sent it to him , that's it? So they were cool with it. But it , you know , I , I have that letter somewhere. I , I put it in a frame. I thought it was cool <laugh> but uh, so I had that and then I made a , um, um,

Speaker 5:

Like a Jordan looking one and give it to Jordan, but that'd be sick <laugh> too . Or you not gun shy. Like I'm not sending , not those sports guys anymore. They get all weird about that.

Speaker 6:

That's you , that's when you're trying to grow your brand, you're like you just throwing stuff out there, hoping it sticks. You know, Tom Brady posts, this I'll get a thousand describers easily, you know,

Speaker 5:

Maybe you send a page spear act and be like, I don't know what you make, but

Speaker 6:

<laugh> but um ,

Speaker 5:

I'm neck for it too.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I , I try to stay away from that stuff. I mean, sometimes people ask me to do some stuff that's really like copyright infringement.

Speaker 5:

Um , you don't wanna mess with that.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I don't wanna mess with it. And you know, and I , I even know about my own brand . I trademarked my logo and I don't want anybody putting my logo on their stuff and saying it's me. So, you know, I , I understand all that. I mean, I , I definitely take it to the edge on some of my designs, but

Speaker 5:

This is my opinion on this. I feel like if people, I feel like people will throw that around like copyright trademark, like, oh, whatever, you know , whatever they say. And if , if you're , if you're on this side of the line, like you're pretty, you're not in the gray area. You're like PA past the gray, not next to the line. And they're acting like about it. Then it's like, okay, game on. Because this is ridiculous. Like, I feel like some people will do that just to like squash you. Yeah. But then I Al like, but just don't mess with other people's stuff. I mean, it's people steal my stuff all the time. You know what I do, I take their websites down. That's what I do. Um , no for reals, like I've people have stolen my logo and like will create a golf website and stole my logo and I've taken their website down and I've taken , I've gotten 'em D indexed because I'm like, no, you steal my stuff. Like I can see my articles on your website. I'm not stupid, dude. You know? Like that's one thing. But if you're like, I don't know , I still don't be jerks. That just the , what it is don't but also like you're making art. So if you're sending art to somebody and you're like, Hey, I'm a fan. I made this for you. Cool beans then I don't know . It's kind of weird that he would do that. Has anybody else been weird or not really?

Speaker 6:

No. No. I mean , other than that, it's been pretty clean.

Speaker 5:

I had a friend who had a brand once who like, he made some stuff that was like had Disney stuff on it. It was like Marvel, whatever. And I was like, are you insane? Like, I was like, you're like there's . And then he brought to the PGA show and he was showing it. And I was like, dude, we're in fricking Orlando man. And then like, he's like, you know , what's so funny. I'm like what? He's like Disney people just walk right by here . I was like, for real, he's like, yeah. And they like saw and said it look nice. And they left . And I was like, you're like this , Dodge's the biggest bullet of your life. Those I'm ask these questions. I don't really know. And I think people wonder that too is when you see really cool art products, then people like have some kind of design on it. And they're like, oh, that looks a lot like Batman or like , cause you did a Batman thing. Like, but you said you changed the image, but obviously it's Batman, right? Yeah . So like, does , would , would in your mind, as an artist, does that worry you about DC or anything like that? You're like, nah , man, whatever. I don't know how , like, I mean, does that make sense? I'm not trying to sound.

Speaker 6:

Yeah, no , I , I guess I look at it as like , you know, I made 30 pieces, you know , did

Speaker 5:

Spend so much more money trying to collect what you made on 30 pieces that it's like, you're not like a , yeah, that's

Speaker 6:

True. Yeah. I mean, it's not like I'm mass producing it in China on t-shirts and I'm selling 'em at JCPenney or something, you know ? No . So

Speaker 5:

Plus to put on a piece of metal, it wasn't like you exactly. It wasn't like you made a t-shirt that said Batman on it and it had Batman on it.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. You know , and , and in the Batman case, that was a sketch I did. So, you know ,

Speaker 5:

It's fine . Do you

Speaker 6:

Really? Yeah. That's my rendering of it. So, you know, for something's your

Speaker 5:

Art . Yeah. Like you , wow. See, you are an artist, dude. Don't even lie.

Speaker 6:

Yeah . I mean , that's really , it really abstract , you know , it's , it was like a shadow really, but you know, it's just,

Speaker 5:

Yeah. But that's so good dude. Like, did you, I mean , I know you have TAs and everything like, like, is that how you got into art that's tattoo artist , but like that kind of style, right? Like

Speaker 6:

Tattoos

Speaker 5:

I'm saying that's that question really good tattoo artists are really good designers. Right . And like that kind of

Speaker 6:

I've designed every one of my tattoos. I mean, I , I

Speaker 5:

Knew , I knew you were gonna fricking say that I've

Speaker 6:

Didn't on me , but , uh , is actually a great lady here in a cushion that does tattoos, Ruby, and she's phenomenal. She's done. I think 99% of my tattoos.

Speaker 5:

Um , like the person you trust.

Speaker 6:

Oh yeah. You know, I have appointment with her in June for another one. So <laugh> really, and I always go back to her. She's she's uh , she's cool.

Speaker 5:

You did . Oh , your stuff is so good. It's just crazy. I love the , I also love what you did with like those playing cars that were like, you had like an ACE and you had like the crack in looking thing on it. That was sick too. I was just like, dude, it's just the stuff you make. It's like, it bridges so many genres. Cause it's almost like an ed your feel as if it was a biker related , right. Like a heavy dark metal, like, but then it kind of also bridges it to like mainstream. Right. And then more of like gaming, like, you know, I don't know . It's just like you bring in all these elements of like , I try think the right word to use . It's almost like

Speaker 6:

It's so I , I like all this stuff I make are things that I like in my real life. Right. So I'm into Marvel, I'm into Batman, I'm into comic stuff, you know? Uh , I'm into fun Shu and uh , Japanese culture I think is cool. Um , so I have my whole arm , my left arm is all Japanese stuff. Oh cool . So I , I bring a lot of that in and , and the other part. So there's another reason why it's also growing the brand. Right. And to your point, bringing other people into golf , um , I, the best message I get from people that buy my stuff is I'm not a golfer, but I , I just thought this thing was cool when I wanted and it makes me wanna play golf. And, and that's like, the best thing I hear from anybody is a non-golfers that gets interested in golf just because they saw one of my items. They , they want it, you know? So like, that's like the best compliment I could get. Um, but I think it also like brings in other people, like, you know, for me, like if I make something like mention the Koy fish , right. You tag Koy on it. And what other words that are associated with that on Instagram and then ball marker and golf. And you get this whole segment of golfers that maybe you never even knew who you were just because you bring in that koi thing. It's another part of their life has nothing to do with golf, but it brings them into the fold because it, you know, it's two things they like potentially, you know? Um, so I think that's a big reason why my audience has grown so fast is that I'm doing golf things, but I'm relating it to other aspects of life. And it brings in a group of demographics that, you know, if I just focused on golf, you know, it'd be the same 300 guys, probably, you know, but I add these little other elements that kind of give it a twist. And I think it brings other people into the fold. And, and I always say growing the game of golf is huge for me. Um, and I, and I , I don't want to be that stuffy older guy type brand. And there's plenty of those out there. Um, I try to cater to an audience that's a demographic of like 18 to 35 , even though I'm well beyond that demographic now , uh , that's what my audience is. The tough part is my stuff's, you know , admittedly expensive. So a lot of those guys are just starting their careers or whatever. So , um, you know , paying $125 for a ball marker is tough. <laugh> right . Uh , I , you know , I've been there when I was 25. There's no way I was buying a ball marker for 125 bucks. But , um, I, but it's different. It's a collectible type thing. And , um, and that's why I think I overengineer it to hit that price point. You can't just, you know, do something simple. It has to be inlays with, you know, different combinations of

Speaker 5:

Material . No, it's , it's , it's the quality it's like, it's just not crap. I mean, it's so quality dude. Like you probably could sell for twice as much of what you're selling it for now. Like, and people would still buy it because it's just like, it's established. I don't know. I look at like, I could see your stuff and like in like a jewelry store, like a high end jewelry store, you know, or something where like people that have like, you go in Vegas. Right. And you have like these, like, I don't know . I could see it, like just sitting there like, oh, here's like, you know, you know, ball mark or whatever it is next to some diamond. I don't know . Like , that's just, it looks so good. It just,

Speaker 6:

I appreciate it . I mean, that's the goal. I'm trying to make it jewelry without it being gold, you know? But , um, I mean, I have a hard time pricing it sometimes, like when I throw $125 , like the marker I did today, the , the skull and crossbones ones , 125 bucks and I get it, man. We're, we're just outta COVID . I mean, there's inflation right now, but at the same time, like that thing, I spent a week and a half making of these things, <laugh>, you know , 50 of them , you know, so I feel bad putting a price on like that, but at the same time I look at I'm like, it probably is worth more than that based on the amount of time I put into it. And it's definitely way overengineered. Um, but it's freaking cool. You know? So it , it , it's a , it's a thing. I have a battle internally over that, but at the same time, like, I mean , that's the price,

Speaker 5:

You , you price it. Right. You price it. So it's affordable and that like, people are not, you know, completely, I dunno , what's the word like they can't, it's like out of their price range. Does that make sense?

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I mean, I , and I , I look at it too . It's golfers, so, I mean, golf's not inexpensive sport, you know, so I mean the , the guys that are playing golf and if you're playing golf, you , you probably have a little bit of money. So, you know, and , and I'm , you know, not everybody's buying every piece. I mean, there's hardcore guys that, I mean, there's some guys that bought literally every piece I've ever produced, which

Speaker 5:

You're gonna have those guys. Yeah . That's gonna grow, dude.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, and , and I appreciate those guys. I mean, without those guys, there wouldn't be two houses out in the garage right now, honestly. I mean , uh , that's the only, I mean, everything that's done through cracking , it's completely self-funded , uh , I mean, initially sure. I put my money in , um , getting the first couple of machines, but , uh , but since then, it's completely funded by customers, you know, and which is just so crazy. I , I appreciate it so much because I mean, there , there's no way in hell my wife would ever let me buy a , a $65,000 house , uh , on our regular paychecks. Right. <laugh>

Speaker 5:

No way .

Speaker 6:

So it's like, I I'm so appreciative of that. Cause again, without those people that are hardcore collectors, you know , there wouldn't be crack and golf. It just wouldn't be , you know ,

Speaker 5:

Well, you create a market that wasn't there. Oh, I just found the picture of the fish . That's so sick . There wouldn't be a market. I mean, you , you create a market that wasn't there before. There was nobody making, like, I mean , there ,

Speaker 6:

I , I didn't create it there there's certainly guys that created it. I I'll say I'm a follower there, but my hope is that I've, I've moved it in a different direction. That that's, that's the thing I always kind of harken back to. I've definitely not the first, I mean, Scotty, Cameron , uh , Ben and Artie was there before me, Tyson lamb was there before me. There's a bunch of guys that were there before me, but , um , I , I just kind of taken it and brought my own little spin to it and the things that I like to it. And I just hope people like what I like and if they do, maybe they appreciate, you know , some of the stuff I make, but I , I , I don't feel like I'm a pioneer by any means. There's , there's certainly other guys that have started this way before I have, but I followed them, but I just kind of, I hopefully taken it in my own direction. I , I never wanna copy anyone else's work. Um, I mean, there's been times where I've made something and then I, you know , did some research after making it and found that someone kind of already did that and immediately scrap it. You know, I , the last thing I wanna do is copy somebody else's work. You know, I , that's a , a real important thing for me because I, I , I see it, you know, I mean, these people have kind of copied some of the stuff that I've made and, you know , I , at first you get a little bit upset and annoyed by it, and then you start thinking, well, you know what I mean, someone liked it enough where they had to go down that road and it , you know, I'll be flattered by it and move on, you know? But that's an important thing for me. I never want to copy someone else's work. I mean,

Speaker 5:

I mean, but you're , you're just being , you're just being inspired by something and then you make it right. Like ,

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I mean, you can be inspired and, and change it and make it your own. Right. I mean, I mean, you know , we're making ball markers the end of the day, this there's only so many ways you can make 'em . Right. Um, so everybody's done something that someone else has kind of done, but , uh , you know, there's some guys out there that will blatantly just remake someone's work. Right. Which I just, I detest that and I make sure that that's not part of what I do. You know, I just, I , I know how much time it takes to make something, to create something and the , you know, yeah . I'm up at 2:00 AM. Sometimes think of an idea and then, you know , for someone to copy, it's just like, that sucks, you know, but you know, you get past it and you know, the way it is. Right. But I , I try to make sure I don't, I that's very important thing for me. And, you know, if anyone ever called me out on it, you know, I'd not, I would not make something that was someone else's, that's very important to me.

Speaker 5:

Yeah. You'd be like, you'd just be more like, if somebody said , Hey , we already kind of made that and you saw like, oh crap, okay, well , I'll get rid of that. Like, you don't wanna be , that's not who you are. Right. I mean, some people have designs that are similar. Right. But then there's also people that do a blatant copy and you're like, I'm not

Speaker 6:

Doing that. Well , you mean , I see it in your space. Right. So, you know, it's, it's the same thing with anything, right? I mean, if you're the , if you're originator of something, you wanna , you wanna be the originator of it. Right. I , I don't wanna copy someone else's work . It's easy. You know,

Speaker 5:

When did you start doing putters? George

Speaker 6:

Putter, I think was 2019 on the shelf here . If I see it, it's terrible. It's terrible. Terrible. No , it's, that's not terrible. It's just really Pett it at this point.

Speaker 5:

That's cool. People would buy that.

Speaker 6:

So

Speaker 5:

It's terrible. What are talking about?

Speaker 6:

I mean , it , it's functionally phenomenal. I used it for two seasons before I have one I have now, but that's the first putter I ever made. It's copper. And it's like, it's like dark brown patina now, which is pretty cool. Uh , and it has a little bit of a octopus engraving on it as can see

Speaker 5:

That's it .

Speaker 6:

But , uh, yeah, 2019, I think I made this , uh , now I don't know . I think I'm up to 225 putters around there. Something

Speaker 5:

Like that. When you make a putter, do you do like, how many do you make at a time? One? I have no

Speaker 6:

Everyone's one, one of one I've never made a match , produced a putter. And for me, mass production be more than one <laugh> but no , I've all , they're all one. I , so on my website, I don't have stock putters. Um, I have stock ball markers and D tools. There's a couple different styles out there that anybody can get you .

Speaker 5:

Yeah. People or , you know, people like, and you make more of those.

Speaker 6:

But every putter I've made is, is essentially one of one. There's not any duplicates.

Speaker 5:

Where's the cost for a putter ,

Speaker 6:

Um , starting start at 8 99 for something simple within engravings. Um, and then you get into like exotic metals, like MoCo or Damascus. And , uh , if you want inlays and stuff like that, then you know, it could go up to 2000, 2,500 bucks , something

Speaker 5:

Like that. What's the most expensive putter you ever sold?

Speaker 6:

Uh, there was a Mo putter that had a Damascus neck on it and it was , uh , $2,800 .

Speaker 5:

Somebody bought it.

Speaker 6:

Mm-hmm <affirmative> it was custom for somebody they

Speaker 5:

Requested. Oh, they wanted it . Yeah. Have you sold any putters or have you sold any items to famous people that asked for your stuff?

Speaker 6:

Um ,

Speaker 5:

Like , oh , that's cool.

Speaker 6:

Um, I mean, I've , I have a couple like ball markers and D tools on tour. Um, Jimmy Walker for one has one of my revolver ball markers. Um, some other guys on tour have had stuff. So , um, I don't have a putter on tour. I have not sold a putter in on tour . Um, who else? Who else ? A lot of like football players, I've done stuff with golden Tate has some of my stuff. Uh , actually golden Tate. I made him belt buckles for his whole , uh , bachelor party , uh , which is pretty cool. Uh that's cool. And there were some other football players that were part of his bachelor party. Remember Jimmy Clauson . I , he played the quarterback and there were some other guys too. Um, so I've done stuff like that. Um, and then you get some, a lot of baseball players, a lot of baseball players play golf. Um, a lot of minor league guys, a

Speaker 5:

Lot of hockey players play golf

Speaker 6:

Hockey players. So I mean, I , you know , it's not , I don't have Michael Jordan or anything like that,

Speaker 5:

But no, no,

Speaker 6:

But guys that have , you know, guys on tour, some guys on tour have some of my stuff. There's been some actors. I mean, there's there's , I wish we would've told me this question in advance. I would've a list for you , but

Speaker 5:

Oh, no, it's cool. I was just wondering cuz you were taught Tom Brady and whatever.

Speaker 6:

No, Tom Brady, no goats.

Speaker 5:

<laugh> oh wait . No,

Speaker 6:

<laugh>

Speaker 5:

What , uh , what's new for you guys this year. What's new for you? Like what do you plan anything cool. Different. I mean you always come in designs. I know weekly and monthly before .

Speaker 6:

Yeah . Well in terms of different products. So I'm batting around the idea of doing a subscription for head covers. Um, so head

Speaker 5:

Covers. Are you making them yourself?

Speaker 6:

No. No, just my design though . So that's one idea I have. Um,

Speaker 5:

That's kinda hard. That's kind of hard, man. I'll tell you like how many head covers do you need? Right. Like that's, that's the thing like you should do subscription for ball markers or like smalls, I guess . I mean, how many , I guess I probably, I probably cancel that for five months. Cause I'd be like , all my heads are , all my covers are headed or all my golf clothes are now covered. I don't, this is , I mean you make amazing head cover . I'm just saying that's kind of ,

Speaker 6:

Yeah. So that's one, I've had a lot of guys ask me to make score card holders outta leather. Um, I haven't done one yet, but that's it's on the design . The design board is pretty large. <laugh> just put it that way, you know ? So there's a lot of stuff out there that , uh, is on the backlog. But uh , so that's something I get asked a lot. Um , this morning I was actually working on a , uh , like a putter type cup that you would put on your rug and practice putting into, but not a basic everyday one that you would find at like galaxy golf or something like that. I mean, we talking

Speaker 5:

Plastic with those little flappy things . Yeah .

Speaker 6:

We're talking metal with , uh , leather on the bottom and you know, some high end stuff here. So I'm working on something like that. Um,

Speaker 5:

Do you ever do like tournament , uh , would you ever do like inspired stuff, like tournament inspired, like, oh, the master's inspired . Um , yeah . You know, allow that don't

Speaker 6:

You? I did a master's market last year. Uh , did it tool last year? Did master's marker the year before? And those have been some of the craziest designs I've done, actually those two pieces. Um, I have something special coming up for this masters . It's leather . I'll leave it at that. Um , it's gonna be pretty cool. Um, but uh , yeah, no , I , I try to do tournament events. I didn't do anything really for the , for the players' championship this week. Uh , just because honestly didn't have time. I had too much other stuff going on. I just couldn't get to it. Yeah . But I , I always do something for the masters ,

Speaker 5:

Big events.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I usually do something for the open , so we'll , we'll see. I , I try to do stuff around that, but honestly I get bored with it, you know? Like I want to do my crazy stuff. That's out in left field more than I

Speaker 5:

Wanna do . Yeah. It's like, I feel it could be cliche. Right. Or it's likes the blah, blah, blah, inspired , whatever. And it's like, everybody does that to sell stuff, but then it's like, you're just always making cool, cool items. Like just things are like contemporary, you know, whatever stuff that we like, you get that , like I saw that one you had was like a king hippo from like Mike Tyson's punch out . Right. Like stuff that like guys are our age. We remember playing that game like , oh, that's cool. I'd buy that. You know? Like, like that is where you should be spending time on is like stuff that's like nostalgic, but like yeah . Modern take to a nostalgic thing. Like, I don't know. I think that you just do like, oh, it's a tiger woods going like this ball marker. It's like, great. Everybody's a million of those things. You know? It's a little ,

Speaker 6:

Yeah . I try to do like lately. I , I dunno if you saw my, the , the dice ball marker. <laugh>

Speaker 5:

Cool .

Speaker 6:

So I I've been trying to do stuff. That's really like, you , you throw that on the grain. You kind of look like an, but <laugh> at the same time, that's me like , I'm the type of guy that would throw that of a grain and be like , dude, put around it . You know, I'll slide it to the left for you a little bit. You know? So like

Speaker 5:

They have a real big one, like a big, one like a , did you do like a Rubik's cube one? That'd be cool.

Speaker 6:

Somebody messaged me the other day on that actually, which is funny that you brought it up .

Speaker 5:

I mean , you're doing , if you're doing dice. I ,

Speaker 6:

Yeah , yeah. That's possibility

Speaker 5:

Would , if you do like a circular one, that's like a globe. That'd be cool. You know, like an old, I just think of all things you do, like cause crack and you think of like sailing and like, you know, a nostalgic

Speaker 6:

Think a lot of that stuff early on, like I , a lot of my early releases were like ocean theme stuff. And then I think I kind of just got away from it. Like I , I was just , you know, cracking now is just like, whatever I'm into right now, I wanna make something that kind of represents it. You know? Uh , it doesn't have to be ocean. It could be

Speaker 5:

All over the place, dude. Yeah . There's no , there's no rhyme or reason. Right. It's just like, it's , it's whatever inspires you. And you're like, I'm gonna make that wheel fortune. Yeah .

Speaker 6:

You stolen crossbones today and maybe I'll do a cab next week or something .

Speaker 5:

Yeah . Like for real , it's like , that'd be funny care . The crack and symbol on its stomach .

Speaker 6:

Yeah . Something like that.

Speaker 5:

Well , I think is cool about what you're doing is that you're not a one trick pony and you're not like, oh, I just make ball markers. And they're cool. Like you've, you've expanded so much over the last four years that you went from like ball markers, the di tools to putters, then you are going to leather goods. Right. Like's completely different. Not even the same realm. Right. And you start making, you started making like all the leather good stuff. And it's like, you just do what you want. Right.

Speaker 6:

There's no restrictions right. Having your own business, but I'll tell you what leather for me is just like , uh , soothing. Like its something where I can sit down. I have like , uh , either TV on or radio or listen to music. And I'm just like going through this leather. And then , uh , I get inspired a lot by leather. I've been watching, like what really inspires me is like , um, some of the high end luxury brands and the leather wallets and stuff that they do. Um , you know, like Louis Viton and stuff like that. Like some crazy, crazy stuff. Right. So I so inspired that last week I , I went out and I bought a UV printer so that I can actually print on leather and do some of the stuff like my own spin on what kind of like Louis Viton does with like their logo over the leather and stuff. So a lot of that

Speaker 5:

It's so smart, man. Cause I even think about this, like, you know, bringing females now into what you're making. Cause like right now it's whole bunch of dudes buying that stuff. I already know it. Right. Like , but it's like, okay, now you're making cool leather stuff that like it's kind of high end . And it's like, no one's doing that. I mean, nobody's that I can think of.

Speaker 6:

Well,

Speaker 5:

Like , I mean , especially,

Speaker 6:

Well we just talked about, so I , I noticed someone the other day was making leather , a tool holder for ball markers and D tools kind of similar to what I make design wise . Right. You know , it happens whatever. So like the first thing I tell my wife is like, how am I gonna like get away from the guy? I wanna make my stuff, but I don't want anyone copy it. So the first thing I thought is let's go buy a machine that costs a whole lot of money that someone's not gonna be able to follow me. At least not immediately <laugh>

Speaker 5:

You can make looking Chinese knockoff of that ball holder thing. Or , you know , it's like your clientele's different. Right? They want quality. They're just looking for something . They can go buy . If they wanna go buy that thing , they go buy on Amazon. You know? It's like, it's like, it's the way you separate yourself from what everybody else is doing is just the qual . It's not the work . I don't say quality. It's just like the level of intricacy of what you're doing. Right. That like I have no problem spending a hundred dollars for that ball marker . When I can still buy that same ball marker for $9 on Amazon. Right. S a ball marker . But it's like , I want that cool of one because it's like, whatever, that's smart. It's like, you're , that's how you separating yourselves out without having to deal with the of people trying to copy you.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. I mean, I mean, for me, like I'm gonna start introducing UV prints on my leather now. So I mean, nobody does it. Nobody does it in golf right now. Nobody. So I'll be the first

Speaker 5:

You should do. You should do those score books , scorecard books, dude, they'll sell for a lot of money. Everyone's doing 'em though. That's a thing too. It's like, do you wanna be mainstream? Like, oh, I'm doing 'em because everyone else is doing it. You know, like two years ago, nobody was doing those things and then all of a sudden everyone's doing it.

Speaker 6:

Yeah . Honestly, the only reason I haven't done one yet is it's bigger than my wallets and the amount of time it's gonna take me to actually sew that thing by hand. That's the only reason why I haven't done it yet .

Speaker 5:

<laugh> what about that ? That'd be the same issue . If you did like a glove holder too , a glove pocket things, you know , be the same issue and those are cheap anyway. So

Speaker 6:

Yeah , I mean, I will do a hold a card holder at some point a scorecard holder at some point, because I I've seen everybody that's out there in the market and this is nice ones, but I know I can make it different, like a lot different. So it's just a matter of do I have time for it ? And each of those are hand saddle stitch, so it's not like I have a sewing machine even like I'm literally stitching it by hand. So, and , and saddle stitch is better than , uh , sewing machine anyways because they're individual stitches. So if one breaks, your wallet's still fine, you know? So that's why I do saddle stitch plus I think it looks cool with a French stitching on it. Uh , it's different. You don't , I mean , you don't find

Speaker 5:

It's a nerd. You're such a nerd, dude. You're

Speaker 6:

Sound like it's so

Speaker 5:

It's so cool. It's so cool because you're so into it. Like, you know, but it's like , cuz you know what you want. Right. You know, like the quality of the stitch, it's like, I'm not, I'm not mass producing this for , I can, you know, to make $150. It's like, I know I'm making a high quality on that will really last because the type of stitch I put on it and the time , amount of time I put into the product I'm making. Right. And it's like,

Speaker 6:

That's , it's funny . Cause I , I told the guy last week he was asking me about making him a custom one , which I don't do. I don't make custom leather goods. Cause it just wait, takes too long. I make 10 . Oh ,

Speaker 5:

Worth it . Go away , man . I'm not doing that.

Speaker 6:

He was , he was telling , asking me about it. And I was like, well, you know, I have a release this week. I'm like, you might wanna pick this release up. Cause it'll be the first one, which I do French stitch instead of straight stitch and the guys , I , I don't care <laugh> I don't came off the stitch . You it's just like the stitch has a slant to it rather than being straight <laugh>

Speaker 5:

So like it's always your calling dude just didn't realize it. You're still YouTube. You should do YouTube of you making stuff. Do you do that or no, not teaching, but being like, oh, I'm gonna make this X. And then it's like, you, it's just kind of like the , you running around a crazy person in your thing making,

Speaker 6:

I dunno . Yeah . You have the time to actually like, you know , produce it afterwards and you know , chop it up and put music to it and all that. I don't have time to do it. So I'll do , uh , I'll do live streams every while , once a while on Instagram.

Speaker 5:

Oh yeah . I've seen that. I've seen her , this crack has in a live stream . I've never seen that.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. Once in a while I'll do that. And then I , I try to do some videos of like behind the scenes, I'll pre up with my story. But uh , my wife actually brought me those Ray band glasses , sunglasses with the , uh , camera built into 'em . So no that's pretty cool. Cause it hooks up to my phone. I throw the sunglasses on. I actually need to pop the lenses out. Cause I can't see with sunglasses on and so and stuff.

Speaker 5:

Yeah . I'm like , I'm like frigging Charles .

Speaker 6:

Yeah. So I'm like , I'm gonna destroy these glasses . My wife was like, I bought you sunglasses. And like you're gonna pop the lenses out. They're like $300 sunglass. So like I don't care about the sunglass bar . I want the camera that's built in so I can actually see the work I'm doing and kind

Speaker 5:

Go for again ,

Speaker 6:

Point of view, perspective of so a wallet or something, you know, which would be pretty cool. Um,

Speaker 5:

It'd be very cool.

Speaker 6:

Yeah . So

Speaker 5:

It'll show your competition how to make it

Speaker 6:

<laugh>. Well, what's funny. My, my , uh , one of my customers, Trent Donahue, Trent is like, awesome. He's a big time collector. And he was the one that mentioned it to me. He is like, Hey, you ever thought about getting these glasses? And there's a camera in them and blah, blah, blah. I'm like I have those glasses. I didn't realize it was a camera . My , my wife bought 'em for me for Christmas. I'm like , oh , there's sunglasses, whatever. You know, Ray bands, whatever. I didn't know there was a camera . So he he's the one that told me, I'm like, oh crap, there's a camera in my sunglasses. I can use this to videotape it .

Speaker 5:

You wore what, if you , what you were when you were go in the bathroom, you're like, you forget about it . You're like, Nope , like naked gun, remember naked gun when he had that mic on still. And he goes to the bathroom <laugh> that makes me, I would totally forget to the camera on. Right.

Speaker 6:

Nobody wants see that , but they ,

Speaker 5:

Nobody wants to see that . But it'd be funny . I'm just saying like , it'd be funny. Um , like , oh crap. One of our listeners right now, chimed in and they have , they said you should start doing , uh , it'd be cool that you could start doing automotive stuff or biker stuff.

Speaker 6:

<laugh> well , yeah . So this is funny actually. You mentioned that. So my buddy that was with me and next day team , my partner now my , my golf buddy. Now we , we talk about all the time. Like all the machinery I have now could easily do stuff outside of golf, you know? And we're, we're constantly batting things around and then it always comes down to like, I don't even have time to do cracking. How am I gonna ,

Speaker 5:

No, you don't have time to , we don't have , well , you could do like old automotive looking ball markers, like old brands that used to exist a million years ago and like, come play off of that. That'd be cool. You know?

Speaker 6:

Yeah . Well , it's funny on my design board, I just put something up maybe a month ago. Uh , and I haven't got to it yet, but it was like old , uh , racing car logos on the side of the doors. So I had like the huge numbers, but all the numbers have like, they're different fonts. They's different color schemes. They're like pretty cool looking . And the first thing I think of is brass ball , marker. I'm gonna , I'm gonna replicate the colors with leather and like do a number seven. So it's simple, simple, but the color scheme and it has like a cool font because it's like old race car type fonts, nothing to do with golf, but I just think they look cool. So they'll be coming at some point when I ever get to that point of the design board.

Speaker 5:

But you gave a , you gave a show called Mark's custom of golf stuff. Like, you know, like on like they had like counts custom cars. That'd be you , but you'd be like making and they'd be a show, just a view like, oh, so and so came and wants us to make this whatever. And then it's like, you make like, I could see a show like that.

Speaker 6:

Well , it's a cool show I watch on , I think it's on history channel. They have the guys that , uh , what is it for or something. They make swords and all kinds of stuff like right there on camera. And they're competing like three or four guys and they're making boards and they're forging them in crazy stuff. And I always say, you know what, if you could get a couple of us makers making ball markers with D tools, that would be a show. I would watch it. I dunno about everybody else. But like, you know how it's made or something behind the scenes. Like I think that'd be a good show. You , and there's a bunch of us in this space, you know , from Scotty cam and all the way down, you know, kind of feature different people, making stuff. I , I think people would

Speaker 5:

Watch . Well , that's kinda what I want to do. I

Speaker 6:

Think golf channel should pick it up. I dunno .

Speaker 5:

Yeah, that'd be cool. I'd watch that too. It's been a long show. I know you gotta go. So I just wanted to say thank you for being on the show today. You guys definitely need to check out crack and golf. They are amazing, or he's amazing. I don't wanna say, cause it's , it's mark . It's crazy to see how much he's grown, cuz like, and it , it makes me happy to see that because everything he's done and the , the growth he has, has to do with his creativity and the quality and it is shined through. And that's why he's doing as well as he's doing. And it's just cool to see that, right. Because a lot of people start this and they don't continue it or the quality goes down and you're like, you're the opposite. Your quality's going up. And your complexity of what you're doing is going up on everything you do. And you're not making like basic stuff. Right. And so I think like , uh , you're I think you need to quit your job. That's why that's

Speaker 6:

<laugh>

Speaker 5:

I know it's not gonna happen , but someday .

Speaker 6:

Yeah . We'll get there .

Speaker 5:

So where can people find crack in that ? The crack and golf.com .

Speaker 6:

Yeah. Crack and golf.com uh , on Instagram , uh, it's just crack and golf . Um, I , Instagram is where all the latest and greatest stuff goes. So I mean , some of it goes on Facebook too, but if you really wanna follow me, Instagram's the best spot to see what I'm working.

Speaker 5:

You're always on there. Huh? Like you're always on Instagram.

Speaker 6:

Yeah. It's like a second job on Instagram. Social media is a big part of what , what I do and it takes up a whole lot of time. So yeah.

Speaker 5:

How , how big is your team? Is it just you and your wife?

Speaker 6:

It's not even my wife, my wife doesn't do much. My daughter probably more so .

Speaker 5:

Is it you and your

Speaker 6:

Little daughter does a lot of packaging, so shipping .

Speaker 5:

So that's your team. That's how big this team is. Big team.

Speaker 6:

Yes . That's it <laugh>

Speaker 5:

Did you have such crazy grow ? That's just , that's awesome. Cause there's not like, oh, I have a team of people helping me now. It's like, no man. And I'm working on and I'm working on my side , my full-time job too. And I grew this brand from nothing into a real brand that has like real followers and cool products. And I don't know . I just think you're , you're talented are

Speaker 6:

Thank you. And uh , you know , the important thing for me is every single item that comes from me is made by me. There's no other person painting or doing anything.

Speaker 5:

No , it's it's you, it's your name on it? It's it's it like, it's just it, you know, you're not gonna risk it. So, you know , well thank you for being on the show and I will see you guys in the next episode.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for listening to another episode of behind the golf brand podcast. You're gonna beat me a golf stay connected on and off the show by visiting golfers authority.com. Don't forget to like subscribe and leave a comment . Golf is always more fun when you win, stay out of the beach and see you on the green green .